lt1 dyno tune

[z28rob18]

ok starting a project soon so ive been pricing everything out and one thing i havent yet is a dyno tune. i need some reccomendations and prices. were building a 383 with a 200 shot and maybe a fab 9" b4 the tune. were lookin for about 450whp on motor and about 650whp on the spray. if u know of any shops or are a shop in the jersey area let me know. we will be using the stock 95 computer and if you'd lik more info let me know.

[LTb1ow]

450rwhp with a 383? Better have some sweet ass heads, and a rock solid valvetrain.

[z28rob18]

450whp outta a 383 shouldnt be that hard a set of le2 heads and a custom cam 234/242 .612/.612 should get it there he rates the le2 heads at 410+hp and thats on a 350 the extra cubes will give it the extra power. so we should be close

[LTb1ow]

The extra cubes will boost your torque curve but you really should get the LE3s.

[NJSPEEDER]

I agree with ShowNoMercy about the heads. When people talk about the HP that heads are capable of, they are talking about max air flow. Cubes can't trick that, maybe you can grab a few more ponies, but max air flow is the same no matter what engine you through them on unless you go boosted and start jamming air into them.

Were are you getting the cam cut? Before I do a custom cam I usually call comp, crane, lunati, and a few shops to get ideas for specs. Just see what they are all thinking for the RPM range and power you want to run.

[z28rob18]

lloyd is probably who will cut the cam and the specs i posted r the specs he thinks will be used. and id love to go le3 but its kind of a budget and he reccomends starting with a set of after market heads. but i u guys hav any better ideas for the same price id love to here them i want to be at about that 450hp point.

[LTb1ow]

T4Ps.

[LTb1ow]

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516173&highlight=brady

Its possible. A lot of work and money is a 100% def.

[z28rob18]

those r some good #s thats wat im lookin for pretty much the same as i want to do except 11:8.1 compression and i have 1 3/4" midtubes.

[LTb1ow]

http://www.ls1lt1.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16469

Another setup, Bret is a good guy, I am not sure whether people on here feel that way, but send him an email @ Bauer engines.

[LTb1ow]

Another one,
http://www.ls1lt1.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18003&highlight=jpack

Again, lots of time, patience and money. But completely doable.

[z28rob18]

ok so wat r these t4p heads? who makes them and where do i find them. and brett is? u hav got me real interested in this

[LTb1ow]

Bret Bauer, engine/cam guy from NY. He used to spec all the cams for Lloyd but he switched cam suppliers.

[z28rob18]

so ur sayin to email him to grind me a cam and use the le2 heads that i planned?

[LTb1ow]

You could, but I would see what he can offer. The T4P heads shown above were from him, so you really need to talk to some suppliers and porters and see what you have the money for.

[z28rob18]

alright thanx for this ill email him and get some info

[LTb1ow]

And also, you need to figure out what you are gonna use the car for, making 450 at 7k won't do you much if you plan on streeting it.

[Pampered-Z]

450 HP on a streetable 383 is not going to be a problem. Lingenfelter's 383 made 420HP, 50 state legal with the little 211/219 cam. :eek:

Just remember you want a cam that is going to make the power in the 6500-6800 RPM range. You don't want to try spinning to or over 7K with a stock EMC and opti.

Depending on your budget, I good set of ported LT1 heads will work fine, LT4 would be better, and aftermarket even better. Trickflow just announced a 21 degree LT1 head that is suppose to have some big flow numbers? I haven't seen any real data on them though. I'd love to try a set out on my setup!

My own opinion is to just not go cheap on the valve train, spend the few extra dollars when you get the heads and go with, double springs, upgrade lifters, hardened pushrods, guide plates. With high compression and nitris you really want to control the valve train, and it sounds like you are going to be running a fairly aggressive cam for that much nitris.

What the heads will support is going to effect cam selection, but in general, ... If you want the car streetable, be careful with your cam selection, the stock ECM can only be tweaked so far before the cam surge will prevent the car from idling and having any street manners. You're probably going to want a cam in the 236-242 duration with a tighter LSA to bleed off some of the compression since you're planning a 200 shot and still make power in the target RPM. Some of the big nitris cams really need an after market EMC and ign. system.

[z28rob18]

thanks for all the info guys the car will be and is my DD but it gets track duties as much as i can go. the cam that i listed was wat lloyd elliot said he would most likly grind for this i told him its my DD and he said opperatng range is lik 2200-6400rpm range and im looking into heads now and wat i can do. because 450rwhp is wat we want if not more.

[LTb1ow]

I see you joined ls1lt1 :nod:

[z28rob18]

yea i did lol tryin to get intouch wit that bret bauer lol but i looked in that one section real quick and decided to post on that one guys question lol i might be on there a bit but i usually stay n ls1tech check here and its been awhile but i also am on camaroforums but i dont go on there much cuz its mostly stupid stuff bein talked about. do u know anything about the lingenfelter heads the ones that r lik 1400 they dont give details

[LTb1ow]

Never really researched Lingenfelter stuff.

[z28rob18]

so say i do hit my goal of about 650rwhp on spray wat kinda times should i be running if i get it to hook?

[LTb1ow]

11s. Until you break anything stock left on it.

[z28rob18]

wont be much stock buyin a new rear wit 4:10s and a new driveshaft with a torque arm and sway bar

[Pampered-Z]

Lingenfelter is good, But I would bet their numbers aren't going to match what some others are flowing that are hand porting and bench flowing. The one thing I don't like is that they don't provide flow numbers so you can't compare what their heads flow compared to others.

Couple other things:

Also note that if you want the heads finished, ie, removal of the CNC milling, that's an additional $300.

Also, those heads are set up for their cams, which are 550 lift. You're probably going with a bigger cam then that, then you need different springs, that and if they need to cut the heads for the springs, the price may go up a bit as well.

I had my heads done in 2000 by GTP, originally as stage IIs, When I decided to go faster I sent them back to have additioanl porting and larger exhaust valves. Haven't heard allot about him in recent years, not even sure his shop is still open? I did find this artical:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/4496_500_hp_na_chevrolet_lt1_engine/index.html

Honestly, I've compared on a bench my heads to a set of LEs and they are almost identical, Lyod appears to port a bit more on the roof of the track around the intake valve. Not sure how big a difference that might make in the flow numbers.

[LTb1ow]

Personally I am not a fan, but a stripped Fbod with a mean 383 and AI heads is running low low 9s. Advanced Induction.

[z28rob18]

the heads from bret bauer r $3k for just the casting although they r badas$$ and id love to hav them $3k is way out of my budget lol

[LTb1ow]

Got spend money if you wanna go fast. My top-end redo prob cost me around 3k. So save your moneys.

[Savage_Messiah]

wont be much stock buyin a new rear wit 4:10s and a new driveshaft with a torque arm and sway bar


By new rear, you mean 12 bolt or 9 inch or dana, right?

[z28rob18]

yes i do a midwest fab 9" is wat i hav in mind with all strange axles and center section back braced with there torque arm and sway bar and the driveshaft upgrade they hav

[sweetbmxrider]

what about the t56?

[Pampered-Z]

what about the t56?

That's the next weak link.

At 600+ HP, you are probably going to want to at the least upgraded sliders and tail shaft. To flat shift the car you may need to also go with the non-syncro set-up?

Above that you’re looking at a full race prepped trans. There is allot of controversy concerning who makes the best parts. G Force and Liberty are what the fastest guys are running that I’m aware of. Sure there are probably a few others. They are suppose to handle 900HP, of course they still break sometimes. Big RPM launches will take their tole on whatever you use.

Then the clutch is another issue. The McLoed street twin is in my opinion the best out there. It’s not bad on the street, but not something you can use in heavy traffic.

I have a friend that turns over 7500 RPMs and the T56/street twin won't shift propperly at those RPMs, he went with a GR5 (G-force built 5 speed), this is clutchless and can be shifted about 7500 RPMs, shifted via a vertical gate. and this does have a proper SF rated bell housing too. Car has amazing shifts going down the track! I have no idea what that setup cost him. Another item on my wish list!

One thing that is really a big issue for us is that no one currently makes a blow proof housing. A group of us have been dealing with McLeod to make them, been a long process, and it might just be a one-time run of them. For now we’re using trans blankets as a safety net. Even so one guy had his clutch explode and torn him and the car up pretty bad. He was lucky to not loose his right foot or leg, pieces of the clutch and flywheel exited the car through the dash, windshield, doors and fenders! The blanket stopped allot of parts or it could have been allot worst!

Spend the dollars on a trans blanket! Best purchase I hope no one even has to use!

Sorry to run on and on, but allot of people don't realize what could happen and the saftey issues sometimes.

John

[z28rob18]

no i actually appreciate all ur input ive been lookin into blankets and sheilds and the trans will be upgraded a bit by a friend who worked in a trans shop new imput shaft and a few other things and i contacted monster clutches and there designing a clutch and billet flywheel for the lt1 so i might go with them im not sure yet our plans have changed a bit cuz after looking we feel that we could be looking at some serious #s the rear and driveshaft r pretty much desided and were lookin at 10 point cages and all the safety equipment and some lik possibly a hutchenson device might not be required in the rules but at 19 there requiered in my das rules anymore input or info you guys hav remember i will be running a 200 shot on this nitrous safety lookin at HSWs package

[LTb1ow]

+1 for 4l60s, lol

[Featherburner]

One thing that is really a big issue for us is that no one currently makes a blow proof housing. A group of us have been dealing with McLeod to make them, been a long process, and it might just be a one-time run of them. For now we’re using trans blankets as a safety net. Even so one guy had his clutch explode and torn him and the car up pretty bad. He was lucky to not loose his right foot or leg, pieces of the clutch and flywheel exited the car through the dash, windshield, doors and fenders! The blanket stopped allot of parts or it could have been allot worst!

Spend the dollars on a trans blanket! Best purchase I hope no one even has to use!

Sorry to run on and on, but allot of people don't realize what could happen and the saftey issues sometimes.

John
John, The blow proof from McLoed is available now. They have a limited number and they are $700.00 but they have them. I was talking to Nick (NJLT1SS) at the TTP meet last Saturday and he has the 2nd one produced.

[Pampered-Z]

They have a limited number and they are $700.00 but they have them.


yes, and that's allot more then the target price we were originally talking about! Do you realize almost ever other BP housing out there is under $500?

[Featherburner]

yes, and that's allot more then the target price we were originally talking about! Do you realize almost ever other BP housing out there is under $500?The question is, how much is every other LT1 blow proof bell? They are the only game in town and they know it. Supply and demand at its finest. :nod:

[BonzoHansen]

yes, and that's allot more then the target price we were originally talking about! Do you realize almost ever other BP housing out there is under $500?

Even your old smelly your feet are worth $700, no?

[Pampered-Z]

Even your old smelly your feet are worth $700, no?

Hey, I'm not cheap! If I had the money right now it would have be siiting in the garage with the rest of the winter mod parts. just a bit disapointed in the pricing. We approached other vendors a few years ago and none were interested, I'm glad Mcloed stepped up. I'm running the street twin and I do know the quality of their product,

The big issue is,,, Youngest daughter just finished college, other getting married in the spring = daddy doesn't have the money right now.

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

Lingenfelter is good, But I would bet their numbers aren't going to match what some others are flowing that are hand porting and bench flowing. The one thing I don't like is that they don't provide flow numbers so you can't compare what their heads flow compared to others.

Couple other things:

Also note that if you want the heads finished, ie, removal of the CNC milling, that's an additional $300.

Also, those heads are set up for their cams, which are 550 lift. You're probably going with a bigger cam then that, then you need different springs, that and if they need to cut the heads for the springs, the price may go up a bit as well.

I had my heads done in 2000 by GTP, originally as stage IIs, When I decided to go faster I sent them back to have additioanl porting and larger exhaust valves. Haven't heard allot about him in recent years, not even sure his shop is still open? I did find this artical:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/4496_500_hp_na_chevrolet_lt1_engine/index.html

Honestly, I've compared on a bench my heads to a set of LEs and they are almost identical, Lyod appears to port a bit more on the roof of the track around the intake valve. Not sure how big a difference that might make in the flow numbers.

Interesting article ty...

[LTb1ow]

Flow numbers aren't always what you should focus on...

[Pampered-Z]

Flow numbers aren't always what you should focus on...

True, but we are talking stock ported heads, not comparing aftermarket heads. The flow numbers will give you some idea of how much work was done to the heads. If you want to compare heads on paper to make your selection, without having to bolt them all onto the same engine and run dyno results, then looking at the flow numbers is certainly the best place to start.

If you’re porting stock heads and one set flows 175 and the other 195 it is certainly going to help you decide which might be better for your application. You want them to match the rest of the engine so you maintain the proper velocity. What good is a stage III head that can flow 210+ if the rest of the internals can't? You could actually end up hurting your performance thru the RPM range.

But we're taking a 600HP Nitrous engine build here, unlike a N/A engine the exhaust side of the head work is going to be a factor, just as much as the cam selection. Looking at the exhaust side is just as important as the intake; with Nitrous you need a bit more exhaust flow that means either more flow at the ports, and a bit more duration on the exhaust lobe. If I was ordering a set of heads or talking to the person doing the porting I certainly would want to know what flow numbers he's getting.