Brake line burst while driving....

[V]

Last weekend while driving I suddenly had the brake pedal drop to the floor, Radio displayed "Check Brake Fluid" warning, and dash Brake and Traction Control lights came on. I barely got the car to stop and then limped it a few miles home by staying in 1st gear and using my parking brake.

I pulled off my wheel and this is what I found... after barely touching the hose to see if it was indeed loose, it did fully snap in half.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/2012-11-04170604_zps3b116f01.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/2012-11-04170552_zpsabdee450.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/2012-11-04170544_zps88b4ab2b.jpg


But heres the issue....

There IS a safety recall from cadillac about these brake hoses.

Vehicle Make / Model: CADILLAC / CTS
Model Year(s): 2003-2007
Manufacturer: GENERAL MOTORS CORP.

Report Receipt Date: MAR 17, 2010
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 10V105000
NHTSA Action Number: N/A
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:FOUNDATION COMPONENTS:HOSES, LINES/PIPING, AND FITTINGS
Potential Number of Units Affected: 139,131

Summary:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/images/spacer.gif GENERAL MOTORS HAS NOTIFIED NHTSA OF A DEFECT IN CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2003-2007 CADILLAC CTS VEHICLES CURRENTLY REGISTERED IN OR ORIGINALLY SOLD IN CONNECTICUT, DELAWARE, ILLINOIS, INDIANA, IOWA, MAINE, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, MICHIGAN, MINNESOTA, MISSOURI, NEW HAMPSHIRE, NEW JERSEY, NEW YORK, OHIO, PENNSYLVANIA, RHODE ISLAND, VERMONT, WASHINGTON D.C., WEST VIRGINIA AND WISCONSIN. SOME OF THESE VEHICLES HAVE A CONDITION IN WHICH THE FRONT BRAKE HOSE FITTING AT THE CALIPER MAY CORRODE DUE TO SNOW OR WATER, CONTAINING ROAD SALT OR OTHER CONTAMINANTS, ENTERING AND BEING RETAINED IN THE ROUTING SLEEVE. IF THE FITTING CORRODES SIGNIFICANTLY, THE BRAKE HOSE-TUBE INTERFACE MAY DEVELOP A LEAK.

Consequence:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/images/spacer.gif THE BRAKE HOSE-TUBE INTERFACE MAY RUPTURE SUDDENLY WITHOUT PRIOR WARNING AND INCREASE VEHICLE STOPPING DISTANCE MAY OCCUR INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.

Remedy:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/images/spacer.gif DEALERS ARE TO REPLACE BOTH FRONT BRAKE HOSE ASSEMBLIES FREE OF CHARGE. THE SAFETY RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING MAY 2010. OWNERS MAY CONTACT CADILLAC AT 1-866-982-2339 OR AT THE OWNER CENTER AT WWW.GMOWNERCENTER.COM (http://WWW.GMOWNERCENTER.COM).

Notes:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/images/spacer.gif GM RECALL NO. 09149. OWNERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV .
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/results.cfm?rcl_id=10V105&searchtype=quicksearch&summary=true&refurl=email

...So I called Cadillac Customer Service and was told it depends on the VIN range. I said OK, and he told me the range. "5012xxxx"-"502xxxxx". Well mine is "5016xxxx" so I thought "ok, good", but No. I was told that even though I am in the VIN range, that my car spent its life in NJ and even though I have the exact issue described in the recall my car is not included. Id have to pay to have my car towed, then pay the dealer diagnostic fee, and then, only then IF the dealer thinks my issue is the same as in the recall, Cadillac would maybe then consider to pay for the hoses and labor to swap them, But not reimburse the tow or diagnostic fee. BTW, the hoses retail for only 18 bucks each so its not a big expense to them to begin with.

I think everything should be fixed free or charge since I could have been hurt or killed and never received any notification about this Safety recall.


As some members here who are also friends with me on Facebook have seen, I did post my issue on Cadillacs Facebook page. A GM customer service rep responded to my post there and I emailed her with all my info and details about the situation. We shall see what happens...

[WayFast84]

It sucks. I had a similar thing happen to me. I had a fuel pump malfunction. The line at the connection split and the whole fuel pump had to be replaced. Months later GM issues a recall for the issue without my car being on the list. We called them and spoke to the dealer and they insist that my car wasn't under the recall so it wasn't their problem.

[MyFirstZ]

As much as I agree with you guys............At a dealer level they will not be reimbursed from GM if it doesn't match. So if it doesn't match the recall when they send the claim in it will be bounced back and the dealer will have to eat the cost.

I'm in no way defending them but I have come across this same scenario at work and there was no way I could have helped

But Paul in your situation it clearly matches the recall and the VIN range and NJ life, it shouldn't be a question if you ask me. But they probably have to say that to cover there asses.

As far as the Diag fee. I deal with this all the time. It is just something we have to do at the dealer to prevent issues between the customer.

Again, In your case its all right there.

Good Luck. I would try calling a few dealers. Grand priz in Nanuet or Caddy in Ramsey on rt. 17 or any other ones by you.

[sweetbmxrider]

Have it fixed at a local repair shop then submit the warranty claim. Make sure you get full reimbursement for the full repair, ya know.

[Blacdout96]

I was going to say Paul, forget talking to dealerships, have to remember they are paying a tech to work on a car that they aren't going to make a profit on, so talking to someone up the chain is bound to make things right. To GM it's a $50.00 part and some towing costs, compared to the headaches they might endure from a lawsuit, or by using the power of the internet and media, compared to a dealership, where they pay for towing, a $50.00 part AND 1/2 time for a tech to do it. Upper management would see this as a way to ensure your would think about this the next car you buy, and keep you as a repeat customer.


Oh, and can I have those calipers? kthanxbye.

[r0nin89]

Jesus, your less than 10 year old car looks like it has 25 year old brake hoses on it :facepalm:

I do have to ask though, why such issues stopping? I mean I know the rear brakes dont do anywhere near as much as the front but you didnt have a pedal at the bottom?

[V]

Since brakes work as a pressurized hydraulic system, and now with one point full open to let all the fluid pour out... a near empty system that can't pressurize itself doesn't work too well.

Think of trying to blow up a balloon with a hole in it.

[Stevoone]

The issue was with the rubber insulator over the line/hose. Water collects inside of that rubber boot and it starts to rust away. I must have done at least 100 of them. A good amount of them came in blown off already.

The replacement GM hoses do not have that rubber piece on them. When you replace them be sure to clean off the caliper where the brass washer seats. They tend to build up a little bit of corrosion. I usually hit them with a a scotch brite pad before putting the new hose on.


Also, be mindful of the rear brake line over the diff. I haven't seen one blow out yet but every single CTS I've pulled the diff on that line is pretty rusty.

[Squirrel]

See if you can find contact info for the GM district/regional manager and discuss youre problem, that will probably be your best bet of fighting to get it done fo' free

[sweetbmxrider]

See if you can find contact info for the GM district/regional manager and discuss youre problem, that will probably be your best bet of fighting to get it done fo' free

I believe he is a member on here, Bigals87z28?

[BonzoHansen]

I believe he is a member on here, Bigals87z28?

fanboi powa! :kneeslap:

[WildBillyT]

Since brakes work as a pressurized hydraulic system, and now with one point full open to let all the fluid pour out... a near empty system that can't pressurize itself doesn't work too well.

Think of trying to blow up a balloon with a hole in it.

I am foggy on this, but you should never lose rear brakes TOO. Master cyls have been dual circuit since the late 60's.

Unless we went backwards that way, which would be an epic fail.

[MyFirstZ]

As far as I know you shouldn't....... but when something like this happens you have no brakes at all.

[V]

if the master goes dry, then there's no fluid. yes there are 2 lines out but still only one common reservoir.

i did manage to stop but the ability wasn't a sensation of giving confidence

[WildBillyT]

if the master goes dry, then there's no fluid. yes there are 2 lines out but still only one common reservoir.

i did manage to stop but the ability wasn't a sensation of giving confidence


Not trying to start ****, and we can take it to tech if this is too much of a hijack.

I get the common res, but that's not my point of contention.

http://www.autoatlanta.com/centric/images/13062127.jpg

Fluid shouldn't come back up out of the actual master, into the res, and back out your open front circuit. Rear circuit should be isolated by design. I'm not trying to argue what you experienced, however I experienced something similar and still had rear brakes.

Hard to believe that a 60's master cyl is better designed than the one in your V.

I guess my point is to take a look at your rear wheels if you haven't already...

[greenformula92]

I've been there. That is a scary feeling

[BonzoHansen]

WBT is correct. IIRC that is by law implemented around 1968.

However you also find the brakes become scary when there is a major fail like this, regardless or separate circuits. And losing a back line is no less comforting I can tell you that.

[sweetbmxrider]

It will certainly feel like no brakes with just the fronts grabbing. Some abs systems connect the driver front with the passenger rear and pass front with driver rear so that can fudge things up more.

[r0nin89]

Not trying to start ****, and we can take it to tech if this is too much of a hijack.

I get the common res, but that's not my point of contention.

http://www.autoatlanta.com/centric/images/13062127.jpg

Fluid shouldn't come back up out of the actual master, into the res, and back out your open front circuit. Rear circuit should be isolated by design. I'm not trying to argue what you experienced, however I experienced something similar and still had rear brakes.

Hard to believe that a 60's master cyl is better designed than the one in your V.

I guess my point is to take a look at your rear wheels if you haven't already...


Yeah this here was my point.

[V]

Well lets try this... un-do your front brake lines, have the fluid pour out, then drive down the road in traffic and apply the brakes as you normally would.

When you smash into the car/truck/person/animal in front of you tell them its ok, you have rear brakes.

[sweetbmxrider]

roflwaffle

[V]

Its going to the dealer tomorrow.
I have an open case number with Cadillac Customer service and have been in contact with a GM rep for a few days now. Hopefully this goes smooth.

[JL8Jeff]

My old 4Runner did the same thing when the rear line blew out and my Silverado had the same feeling when the line blew out. Even though the circuits are supposed to be separated, the rear does not actually start to brake until the piston is a certain distance into the master. And if the master doesn't have the fluid to pressurize, you get pretty much nothing (from either end). It's not a good feeling to lose brakes but you better hope your parking brake is up to the task in an emergency situation.

[NJ346]

I had one of the lines that go from the master to the ABS black burst on my silverado, definitely did not have any stopping power lol.

[sweetbmxrider]

You guys should really go through every inch of your brake lines. From the mid 90s to the mid 00s, the lines are notorious for rusting out. I've done countless and always check them when I can. The brakes will still stop the car in most cases, nowhere near as effective as a properly functioning system. I would not drive a car on a public roadway with a blown line.

[Blacdout96]

Just to give you guys a heads up, NAPA now sells a Nickel/Copper alloy line that will never oxidize and/or rot. It's twice the price of regular line, but it's worth it in the end.

[JL8Jeff]

Just to give you guys a heads up, NAPA now sells a Nickel/Copper alloy line that will never oxidize and/or rot. It's twice the price of regular line, but it's worth it in the end.

I ended up replacing all my hard lines in the Silverado with stainless steel lines and it was a pain to change them out, get them seated properly and stop the slow leaks, but well worth the peace of mind knowing they are good to go. But in Paul's case, it was the stupid rubber boot that was supposed to protect the line that caused the premature rust out. The older Toyota trucks and 4Runners had a rubber boot to protect the parking brake pivot and that would hold moisture, rust them up and lock them in place making the parking brake worthless. It's definitely a good idea to check your brake lines and hoses.

[Blacdout96]

Paul might want to look into getting stainless steel lines to replace the rubber lines

[86blackbetty]

sounds scary..wouldnt wish it on noone..good thing you and noone else was hurt

[V]

Yesterday I put a small vise-grip on the broken line and loaded the car on my trailer. I took it to a Cadillac dealer and gave them a copy of the recall(even though my car wasn't included) and my Cadillac customer service case number. A little after noon today I got a call from the dealer saying it was all done and ready to be picked up. I went right away. They did replace both front brakes as per the recall. They even washed the car too. I made sure I got my vise grips back too.

I am quite satisfied with how GM/Cadillac customer service stepped up and took the appropriate action. I do think all 1st gen cts-v owners should be informed and the recall openly extended to V's.

Due to this positive outcome, I still plan on getting a newer V in 1.5 years.

[LTb1ow]

Saw that on FB, glad to hear that GM stepped up for you Paul.