:stupid:

Oh and there is another pitfall to running ethanol that no one spoke of yet. How would you start a car running pure ethanol in the dead of winter in say alaska? because ethanol burns a lot cooler, it wont be easy to start a motor running ethanol in the cold weather.

same way they start cars in far northern spots now. engine block heaters :)

Which is why its only 85% Ethanol, not 100%. Brazil has a seperate tank that injects gas into the engine upon start up.

oh okay, because I know alcohol race cars sometimes have to warm up on gasoline, but once they get enough heat into the motor they can run the alcohol.

if a car is running lean will higher octane gas lean it out even more?

No, not temporary. But as for now, it IS still new, and will require lots of tests and studies as far and engine performance/wear and tear goes. So for right now, it's going to remain somewhat uncommen. when i said "for many many years"" i meant that if it ever were to go mainstream, it probably wouldn't be within our lifetime.

liz it probably never should. economically and practically it is not a solution by any means. it provides no gains over gasoline, and that sucks cause gasoline is horrible. i dont need to test it to tell you it will be troublesome. especially to older cars full of steel and iron.

We have oil refineries here already. In fact, there's a big one in south jersey. As it stands, we already are using fuel from our own country,and combining it with the fuel we have to import, because we really don't have a whole lot. the problem is, having enough for "the better part of a century" doesn't help us at all when we run out of fuel in after "better years". Sure, great, if we used it all now, it would be cheap for us again, then we'd get old, and then we'd have to listen to our grandchildren bitch about how they don't like the civic hybrid you, grandpa dearest, chipped in to buy for them, cuz it's slow, and they want a car like grandpa had back in the "better part of the century" (but not grandpa's POS ford.... they'r talking about his f-body, when it ran, you know, like when it didnt have a whole in the block, :lol:) and you'll have to tell him to shove it, even though gas is 5 dollars a pint, because we used up all of our own reserve fuel back in the "better part of the century", and the arabs won't import to us for any less.

So let E85 have a run. We've all got gasoline powered cars, and we'll probably all be too broke to go out buying e85 cars and hyrbids. But if half the world is gonna hop on the tree hugger bandwagon, kill off some corn and make some fuel, and lessen the demand for fossil fuel, then let them. Because when demand increases, so does the price. No one is forcing you to run your car on better crocker's cooking lard or whatever other fuel we come up with. but damnit, if it minimizes the need for gasoline, let it catch on for some percent of the world.

You will be dead by the time it would take over. so what do you care? I'm saying it wouldn't happen in our lifetime. and no one is asking you ro run your car, as it stands, on e85. the felfuel cars that run on it now have different components than the gasoline ones we already drive.

wow. liz for president?

do i have your vote?

yes ma'am :usa:

cool. what about your hand in marriage. you can be my first egyptian.

nice i'll be the first arab in congress.

Brian has his own cooking lard? :rofl:

No, but his Pseudonym does.

joke killer :wink:

Amen

~Ted

Amen! The biggest sin in all of this is that it's going to be very difficult to keep older cars on the road. I'm not only talking about our hotrods and muscle cars. There are PLENTY OF people that can't afford to go out and spend $20-30K every few years on a new car, so they drive older used stuff.

I know I'm not going to be in the financial position to buy a "new" car for a very long time, so I gotta keep driving my "old" American iron. And, while the 8.5:1 compression ratio of the 4.0 in my Jeep is great for running on regular unleaded, it's gonna SUCK for this E85 crap.

i think Bill is gonna be the big winner in this whole mess after he has to tune our cars to run this high octane shiz

recipe list for new fuel:
new injectors and fuel pump.
retune
change oil more freuquently
change gas tank, lines, pump and other related items as needed
rebuild engine as needed

all this for a more expensive fuel that we are not sure if it will cause less polution then fossil fuel? and for some reason liz has me convinced its not too bad of an idea :shrug:

Lmao, I see how it is Ian ! :)

i know about the refineries that we have in the US, but they don't exactly drill for the oil do they. we use less and less domestic oil every year despite the fact that every year we pop another exporatory drilling in here and there in the desert south west and in alaska just for find a few billion more barrels available.
ethanol is a poor solution because the supply side is disappearing, unlike oil which we keep finding more and more of domestically. with more and more farms going out of business, despite goverment attempts to step in and save them, the renewable resource that everyone loves to hug and hold will soon be buried under that same hippy ******** condo or the shopping center with the natural foods store they love.
hybrid and diesel technologies are far ahead of the enviromental curve all over the world. the US is jsut lagging behind and trying to put a bandaid on the situation.
for anyoen who doesn't believe in the power of hybrids or diesels, panoz won a sports car race earlier this season with a diesel and ran a hybrid very competitively at le masn about 3 years ago. the le mans effort only failed because the hybrid power plant was stranger than the transmission, they gave up when the third one blew to pieces
also, as an FYI, my camaro runs fine, it has run well since the day the engine swap was completed.

alaska may possibly have enough oil to supply our a country but the environmentalists have to be dicks about it. i bet they'd shutup as soon as gas prices drop back below $2

Gas prices would only drop for maybe about our lifetime if we use our own oil. That crude oil we get the gas form takes years and years and YEARS to produce naturally, so we'd be use it all up from our own country and then be shot out of luck because it'd take another set of hundreds of years to get the oil supply back. We really don't have that much oil here, even if we start drilling. Again, no one is FORCING you to use e85, you may continue to use your gas. And I'm pretty sure, again, that they are NOT telling you to try running your gasoline powered cars on e85. The ones that run on e85 are MADE to run on e85. I dont see what the big deal is. Let some people use it. It'll cut down the demand for gasoline when less of the population is using it. That alone will make gas cheaper, sooner.