Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
(Post 672618)
BTW, GM offers a Camaro shell for drag racing applications.
As far as I know there was a full out drag version of the Challenger...we all see how well that helped sell the car.
What exactly are you basing the lack of Camaro buzz on(I have my theories but I'll play nice)? ANY new model we get all kinds of hype then die down...do you want people blowing GM engineers for the next 5yrs? The buzz over the redesigned Mustang died in about a year then it was business as usual.
I'm sorry but factory drag car products DO NOT sell cars...GM could go build a 1200hp, $200K drag car and I(along with the masses) could care less. I'm either going to buy a new Camaro or I'm not....why would some pet project influence my decision to buy or not buy? Anyone that gets influenced by a drag car like that they can't afford is an idiot.
BTW, the days of 3200lbs cars are LONG gone....WAY LONG gone...there are too many safety requirements and bells and whistles the public wants. Sure, go strip out a Z28 to have nothing in it...GM would sell about 10 of them to die hard enthusiasts.
I still don't buy this super Mustang influencing a single street model sale...one has nothing to do with the other IMO. Some people are using this pet project to rip on GM...then they would be the same people whining that GM spends $$ on stupid stuff....this would be a perfect example. GM would see absolutely no benefit to building some stupid drag car.
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The Challenger suffers from the same disease as the Camaro, its fat (4100lbs) and how do you offer a sports car in its first model year and not offer a manual transmission? That was a poorly thought out move on Dodge's part. I don't think 3200lb cars are long gone. A 2009 Mustang GT, the direct comparison for a Z28 tips the scales at 3400lbs. I doubt Ford has sourced some unobtainium somewhere to build the car with. Tell the GM engineers to cut 400lbs from the curb weight, I'm sure they can do it.
I'm basing the lack of buzz because I don't see them? I see the same cars on the dealer lots that I pass on a regular basis. Maguire, Elkins, Superior. Maybe they are selling and being restocked with identical cars? And in case you think I'm anti-Camaro because I have a firechicken, you'd be way off base on that one. I'm not even anti-Camaro I just see the car as a dissappointment given the chance to start from a clean slate. How can GM produce the CTS (and CTS-V) and the G8 from a clean slate and put together such a beautiful car that sets the standard and not do the same with the Camaro. I think they got sucked into the retro theme (chasing the Mustang AGAIN) and forced the design to the extent the styling suffers. We know the car will perform because the driveline is world class.
GM already built and blew countless millions building some POS SSR truck thing and horribly failed attempt to revive the GTO....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
(Post 672678)
:bs: Them building that car has nothing to do with a following, has nothing to do with them drumming up sales...it has everything to do with "wow, look at what we did". A few rich wanna be drag racers will buy them and shove them in a heated garage so they can rub one out to them as it sits there. :rofl:
Maybe there aren't many new Camaro's up by you but there are a ton around here. There was a waiting list for how long? The car is selling just fine.
400lb's is a lot of weight to trim and the Z28 hasn't been a SCCA tribute since the 60's. As far as the Z06 engine goes I believe they're phasing out the LS7(I could be wrong though).
With all of the safety equipment that's required it's hard to keep the weight down. Yes the car is bulky, yes the looks are subjective but the car handles its own just fine. It smokes it's competitors, Ford is just now upping the ante with the 5.0 Mustang, GM has time to respond. As of right now the Camaro is king of the hill...not sure why there's such an issue.
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Your right some rich guys will polish the cars in a heated garage with man juice, but you don't think it has the slightest trickle down effect on a young impressionable male buyer? Maybe he see's one run and gets the itch. So he ends up in a base GT versus a V6 car, but he go the idea....?
Don't use the LS7 then....but give it something special.
If the car (1SS or 2SS)stands on it own, then don't mess with it. But let Z28 stand head and shoulders above that. What are you gonna add to the Z28? More power, definitely! More creature comforts (espresso machine in the console)? The Z28 isn't going to make or break the sales for the car, that's the V6's job. Do the Z28 right, give the HP, the suspension and brakes. Lessen the creatures comforts or make use of alternative materials to trim the weight.....and let it rip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT
(Post 672684)
Hard core performance drivers will want a set list of specs and certain omissions. Radio delete, special ring and pinion, carbon fiber body panels, dry sump, etc. These cars won't sell well. They didn't in the 60's, either.
In order to keep the car alive they need to offer features that regular people want- like heated seats, XM radio, GPS, useless 22" rims, etc.
One of the reasons the Mustang is still around is because it's such a solid V6 seller. That affords them the ability to screw around with V8 models.
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I realize I'm in the minority, but to me the Z28 is all about performance. I hope GM sells the V6 cars buy the boatloads and that buys them some flexibility with the V8 cars, like the Mustang model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT
(Post 672694)
Even the all mighty ZL1 that everybody fawns over now...sold like crap. I think it was around double the price of an regular SS Camaro at $7200, and Gibb could only sell 13 of them. The rest got redistributed.
GM even had the two ZL1 prototype cars that were around $9000 when they were all done. Talk about steep for the time. An average house had a price of $15000.
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I'm not arguing for ZL1 type builds. Just a nice reasonably light Camaro with an upgraded suspension with a bump in power and a manual transmission.
Who is the target demographic of the Camaro anyway?
