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- Engine / Power / Tuning (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31)

- - pics of the motor 2. (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21294)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER (Post 286695)

comp cams tech help line is 1-800-999-0853
i would suggest xe284, power band is 2300-6500, 284/296 advertised duration, 507/510 lift with 1.5 rockers, 110 LSA.
power band is similar to what you were looking at and will yield a much broader torque curve.

That's a good suggestion. Check my sig.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WayFast84 (Post 286699)

i cant call them, Im a newb theyll be like you dont know chit

when you cal them jsut explain that you are putting together your first engine combo. all the info they should need is that it is a 400 SBC, you are going to be running ported vortec heads, and either a tall dual plain(performer rpm) or low rise single plain(torker2/xcelerator) intake.
the only other question that they are likely to have is about compression ratio. when you buy pistons you will want to look for something that will be between 10.0 and 11.0 to 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardline_42 (Post 286702)

I wasn't going after you, I just get a little frustrated with the general demeanor of this forum when it comes to criticism vs. help. It seems like Matt can't ask a question without the whole forum giving him crap for every little thing. Maybe it's the average age of the members on here or something else but the vibe isn't so great and it bothers me when someone says ignorant things about Nasty members who are actually commited to helping each other out and sharing information instead of insults. There's a much larger pool of knowledge there and I think that a little more research would be a good thing before opening up on people who have much more experience. That's all.

I agree. Nobody thinks that Dirt is a God. And he's modest about the whole thing. The thing is that his combo works well. And other combos that he has recommended based of his have worked pretty good too.

The only thing I saw posted in here that I don't agree with is the Torker II manifold. That should really only be used if hood clearance is an issue. Other than that, it is completely blown out of the water compared to modern dual planes. The RPM or RPM Air-Gap will be a much better match.

I filled comp cams, cam selector out today, lots of "dont knows" lol..

just FYI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirt Reynolds

Wayfast84 -- yes, I did use a camshaft that is of the older style -- on purpose. I am not totally convinced the newer 'fast-ramp' style camshafts are any better or even beneficial for use with Vortec heads for a number of reasons. Granted -- I could be wrong on this since I personally have not back to back tested this theory, but after a lot of consideration and some digging around I simply did not find much evidence that guys running the 'XE' type cams are doing any better than those of use running the older so-called 'slow ramp' designs. Consider this: Car Craft magazine did a build-up once with a GM crate 330HP 350, which comes stock with the Vortecs. The camshaft is of the non fast-ramp variety 212°/222° @ 0.050". CC pulled the stocker cam and replaced it with a much larger Comp XE268 which is 224°/230° @ 0.050". Net result after all that work: 7 HP. That's right -- 7 HP. Granted, the compression ratio was 9:1 which does make a differnce and benefits the smaller stocker cam more, however you would think for the faster ramp profile and supposed better power of the XE line, something better than a 7HP net would have been the result. Something to think about.

:cool:

i have a cam with similar specs to that for sale let me know if youre interested

simular specs to what cam?

is it the nitrous cam you have listed for sale?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardline_42 (Post 286662)

And let's be honest, Matt needs to learn to DRIVE before he can even think about laying down ET's at the track (no offense, Matt :wink: ). A proven engine combo is a great starting point and the rest of the set up can come later.

See my opinion (which has been formed by the helpfulness on this site, imagine that) is to make the most out of wht your car already has, get all fo that to the ground aka work on your suspension, because what is the point of more pwoer if what you have already isn't being fully utilized?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WayFast84 (Post 287019)

just FYI

i know the article he is talking about. looking at the peak numbers is misleading when it comes to the updated cam designs. the peaks aren't a huge gain when you go from miniture old cam to miniture new cam, but the average power is higher.
basically you see the improvement all the way across the chart, not jsut at peak.
peak numbers are nice if all you wanna do is brag to your friends, area under teh curve is what makes the car quicker/faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER (Post 287439)

Not to :horse: but Dirt Reynolds wrote a reply to you on NastyZ28.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirt Reynolds

NJSPEEDER -- I'll address your posts here since it concerns this topic, and I'm not a member of your board.

First of all -- if you've been reading this topic you'd know from the get-go the Vortec/413 combo was a budget deal. The cam and lifter kit was about a hundred bucks and the springs were $30. A similar grind to this is sold by Edelbrock as their 'Performer RPM' camshaft. Sure it's not 'state of the art', but it certainly works, and is easy on the valvetrain. The spring requirement meant that the seats did not need to be cut yet still provide good performance. The rocker arms were stock as were the valves, and I used a 3310 Holley carb. The vehicle weight approached 3800 lbs race-ready and if you know anything at all about what it takes to make a tank of a car this heavy run near the 11's with a street small block you'd know that the combo I listed worked not too bad. In fact, I thought initially if the car went a 12.70 on drag radials that would be great. Instead it got quicker and faster down to the 12-teen range. It would have went in the 11s with further tuning and trying various launching techniques, of that I'm certain. I think this is not shabby performance, all things considered. And just as a further note -- this 413 did eventually run in the 11.70s on drag radials with different heads, intake and a much bigger solid FT cam.

Regarding your comments about the reply I made concerning the GM 330HP GM engine cam swap test -- for all that effort to install a much larger cam grind (Comp XE 268 224°/230°/110° LSA) vs. the stock GM 330HP camshaft (212°/222°/112°) to net a gain of 7HP -- that cam swap was not worth the effort. Yes, power across the useable RPM range is what is important but what did you see in that test that made going to another bigger, so-called 'better' cam profile, worth the while? I saw very little to nothing there. The stock cam provided great torque across the useable RPM range and was well suited to that particular engine. In my case the useable RPM range was off-idle to 5700 RPM, although it would RPM to 6000. That is a good indication of how streetable the budget 400/Vortec package really was.

I shared my build-up here on Nasty to assist others who might want to go down the Vortec path and others like DriveWFO and Malibu2slow have gone quicker than I have with Vortecs - right into the mid-11s - so by no means is my car the 'be all and end all' of things Vortec. I've learned from others also. It's a two-way street. It is just my one man's contribution to the forum. My build simply represents what is possible on a real budget.

I would suggest you re-read the details before putting your mouth in gear.

I don't know if this helps you matt but Pace has vortec heads w/ steam holes, brand new, fully assembled for $290 a head. I don't know if you can get them machined for less then that or not but just some more info. I figure you will probably pay $250-$300 for a used set then a couple more to have them cleaned up and the holes drilled. Not to mention if you end up needing a valve job or some other unforseen cost.

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...D&ProdID=67722

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardline_42 (Post 287552)

Not to :horse: but Dirt Reynolds wrote a reply to you on NastyZ28.

honestly who cares?

Your beating a dead horse bigtime & for no reason

He's beating a dead horse and in reality has no reason to even need to respond since he isnt on this forum and I can only assume you passed along this thread for him to view just so he would retalliate which IMO is just retarded to do.

As for why go with a better cam, Tim already pointed that out...its average hp not peak...it made not only more peak hp but more average hp which will win races.

As for him making excuses about his weight & this that & the other...he's probably putting down about 340 rwhp with a 413 cubic inch motor to run the mph he did...not that impressive IMO, but whatever, not my argument.

Anywayz have fun posting threads on other sites just to get responses from people that really had no reason to be brought into this thread.

To Dirt since I know Softass69 will eventually post this response on nasty im sorry if your offended by anything that was said by anyone here...your name really shouldnt have even been brought into the mix...your combination seems to work well for you & its obviously a very streetable package & for that Im happy for you.

As for you Hardhat76 your being a retard about the whole situation IMO the BS about "oh its a proven combination" is a bunch of BS when like 1 person has the combo :lol: so get off it.

Also Tim is one of the more helpful people on this board...on and off of it so get off the crack if thats what you think of him...obviously someone pissed in your wheaties or something...get over it or go away.

Bye

Quote:

Originally Posted by foff667 (Post 287580)

Wow. I guess I should've expected as much from this crew. Where do I begin? Let's see. For starters, WayFast has been PM'ing Dirt Reynolds since he decided to go with Vortecs, so he has been aware of this thread for some time. I have no vested interest in this situation. Matt already has my old engine and that's that. So what do I gain from causing any inter-forum beef? Nothing. As it turns out, Dirt Reynolds was in the process of starting up a Vortec Forum and asked me to be a Mod, and in the course of our emails, mention of this and other threads in which his experience was being quoted was made. It was his choice to respond as he did.

Second, calling me a "retard" and saying I'm "on crack" is not exactly a testament to your maturity. You have the right to your opinion, and this forum allows you to express it without consequences. However, you have never met me and I assume you have never met Dave (Dirt Reynolds) so whatever judgement you have made is off-base. By the same token, I don't know Tim, but outside of this thread he seems to be a very helpful guy and I explained in my previous posts that my tone in this thread was not directed towards him but was instead due to the general critical demeanor of the people posting on this forum.

Third, I am defending Dirt's recommendations to Matt only because they are a good match to Matt's skill level, budget and goals for his build-up. If you notice my sig, I am in fact running an XE284 cam, not a truck cam. Besides, what is a "proven combination" if not something that has worked well in the past? If you read Dirt's Vortec guide you'll notice that he didn't slap a bunch of parts together and call himself an expert. He's got his own first hand experience as well as that of folks who have been involved with the Vortec design since the beginning to draw from.

Lastly, I am not a "noob" nor will I ever be "pwned." I don't go to NJFBOA parties and dangle my dong in other members' faces when they pass out, nor post up garbage when I'm drunk. That doesn't mean I don't know Chevys and it doesn't mean I don't know Vortecs. At the risk of stooping to your level, no, I won't get over it and I won't go away.:soapbox: :moon:

Can't we all just get along (and on topic?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batman (Post 287575)

Batman, thats not a bad deal. I've drilled the holes on all of my Vortec heads, but compared to what machine shops are charging for that, $290 is pretty good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardline_42 (Post 287603)

Wow. I guess I should've expected as much from this crew.

I didn't even read the rest of your post because this line alone shows what kind of person you are...foff :moon: douche.

Pace also has a whole slew of other Vortec heads

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...S&Category=839

you still havent posted what the dirt dude uses for a rear, gears, stall, suspension etc......

what is the total of this budget you speak of?

and all this talk of a budget build, where are you gonna be with your budget when your new 400ci motor blows up your stock 1984 rear? or stock tranny, or twists up your car before you put suspension on it, or cant stop with the stock 84 brakes????

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrrmike (Post 287634)

you still havent posted what the dirt dude uses for a rear, gears, stall, suspension etc......

It's on page 4 of this thread, about halfway down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardline_42 (Post 287638)

It's on page 4 of this thread, about halfway down.

i stand corrected on that one, but it also goes to show what matt will need to come anywhere near the same times.......

and the answer to my other 2 questions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrrmike (Post 287640)

i stand corrected on that one, but it also goes to show what matt will need to come anywhere near the same times.......

and the answer to my other 2 questions?

I didn't realize those questions were directed to me. I think that budget-wise, Matt has to answer those questions. To me $70 for a cam and lifter kit and less than $50 for springs, retainers and locks is inexpensive. Same goes for a pair of used Vortecs and centerbolt vc's, used intake and carb. As far as the rest of the build, that would be the case regardless of what engine combo he used. A 400 plus cid engine is capable of breaking every part of a stock drivetrain and I think that all of us were commenting with the assumption that he would have to upgrade the rest. He could've started with suspension, or the rear end etc. but he chose to start with the engine so that's what we've been talking about.

im just curious to know how much total someone building this set up would be spending vs. the power the setup will make?