[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by racerx520

this is gonna make it even harder for me to find parts for my third gen isnt it? how about older cars like my 87, will this help out its value at all, or will it hurt it?

Who knows at this point. They are not as desirable as older cars, but its possible that in 20 years or so it could be.

and i am gonna miss pontiac, just thought it was a great car company in my own opinion, but thats just me, i'll still be a GM guy, but not a chevy guy lol. a damn shame is what this is. and you say that pontiac has been dead since 04, which i would have to say, they've been going downhill since before that, since when they started making mini vans and all that crap, i was really hoping to see one of my favorite car brands make a 180 and start being something to be extra proud of again.

Before Minivans, there was wagons, and Pontiac had wagons.
People wanted minivans after Chrysler brought out the Caravan/Voyager/T&C tripple team and it swept the US Automotive world.
Pontiac might have been going downhill in your eyes, but I think that most people think that these companies only made super muscle cars that were blazing fast.
In real life, most Chevy's, Pontiacs, and all the rest of the automakers just made cars to suit the rest of the publics need, to get form point a to b.

Its the same idea that the GTO was this all powerful super awesome muscle car that had its own everything, when it in fact was just a Tempest/Lemans, which is equivlient to the Grand Am or G6 today. Yes, it turned into its own vehicle, but its design, body pannels, interior is all Tempest/Lemans.
Same goes for these mystical SS cars that roamed the streets. Not all of them were big honkin 454 powerd muscle cars. Most were SS 350 cars running low 15's to high 14's.
As I digress...your opinion on Pontiac's downfall is your own, but dont think that because it started to sell minivans did it start to fall.
I dont know what Pontiac could have made that would have stopped people in thier tracks and buy them again. Pontiac the brand is heavily purchased by women, so I guess you could say that Pontiac hurt itself when it stopped making SUV's and Minivans and moved to Solstice, GTO's, G8's and G6 coupes.
You want to know what the best outcome would be?
Reports say that if the Fiat-Chrysler deal doesnt go through, Fiat will hook back up with GM, and if thats teh case, there should be a short-track mission to get Alfa's built here in the US as Pontiacs.
Fiat should be sold under Saturn.
Fiat took a lot of GM technology (and 2 billion dollars) when they spit up sevearl years ago. Most of Alfa's cars are built off of GM's Epsilon or Delta platform. Fiat and GM share diesel engine technology. Alfa's 3.2 V6 is based off GM's 2.8/3.0/3.6 V6 engines.
Pray that the Fiat-Chyrsler deal falls through. That to me would be Pontiac's only hope.

and i would have to agree that GM should start fighting other companies other than just ford vehicles, they have enough branches, someone told me hummer was cut too...if they havent, i think they should make hummers cheap and more jeep like, make them able to go in the mud without instantly needing to get them detailed for 300 bucks the next day, make them actually durable and give them back the diesel engines, none of this 5cyl or 390 ci crap and get rid of the H2's and H3's, they suck, i think thats where GM REALLY went wrong, trying to make hummer into a big selling company when theyre only in the market for those who buy hair gel or rogaine in bulk or go to the skanky bars/clubs.

GM has been trying to sell Hummer for a year now. Lots of tire kickers, but no offers now. GM has mismanaged that brand to no end, not to mention the image it gained from gas guzzler to its global outlook of a brand that makes US Military equipment. Strike's 1, 2 and 3.
Did GM do wrong by making the H2 and H3? Not at all. The two are very capeable trucks. I think that the cartoonish design, the over the top look, brought down the brand. They had the chance to make a true luxury truck division, a domestic Land Rover complete with all the abilities and history to go with it. I think that the H3 was thier best SUV, and I really wish that the platform is tranferd over to GMC as a midsized rugged SUV.
GM didnt expect "big" sales numbers, but they wanted a full range of Hummer vehicles. Hummer had really good advertising too...its a shame it had no design guidence.

and im glad to hear saab is gone, that was another thing GM just pis sed into the wind with, blowing money away when we could probably have had seen more/better cars.

How wrong you are. Saab was a huge advantage for GM to have. The basis for the Ecotec engine came from Saab. Saab's advanced knowlage of turbocharging helped GM develop better and more powerful engines. The Epsilon FWD platform that was co-devleoped with Saab and GM along with Fiat, forms the basic structure for cars like the Chevy Malibu, Pontiac G6, Saturn Aura, Saab 9-3, Opel/Vaux Vectra, Alfa 159 and its variants, along with second generation Epsilon cars like the brand new Buick LaCrosse, Opel/Vaux/Buick Insigna/Regal, and next generation Malibu. It is rumored to also underpin an upcoming Caddy flagship. Ep2 has an advanced Haladex AWD system that can be seen under certain cars like the Saab 9-3 TurboX, or the new Opel/Vaux Insigna OPC/VXR making 325hp. The system can push almost 100% of power to the rear tires if it detects slipping.
Saab, out of all the brands, is the biggest lost. Another brand that was run into the ground as GM raped and pillaged it for technology. Saab gets a few outgoing presents such as heavily updated 9-3, a new 9-5 that will debut soon, as well as the upcoming 9-4X crossover.

someone also said it too, get rid of all these FWD cars, no one likes them, just start doing rear wheel drive again.

As said before, if that was the case, BMW would be the #1 selling brand on this planet, followed by other brands like Benz, Holden, Infinity, Caddy, most of Lexus, etc etc.
FWD is easier to package, easier to make, and easier to design around.

one thing that i thought of which i found kinda funny was, here are all these japanese companies making hybrids, and small cars, and efficient cars. then when you come to the U.S. its all about the big muscle cars still, i mean GM needs to get this Volt out i think to really satisfy the tree huggers out there and help increase their sales. thatsjust my thinking

Well, apparently you are a little lost.
No one, not even all-mighty Toyota, has more cars that get over 30mpg then GM. Problem is just as you put it...at least perception wise, that GM concentrates on making muscle cars.
They arent putting the Volt out to "satisfy" tree huggers. Its to show that GM can lead in the technology sector, that it can develop a game changing vehicle, and that they can combine there powerful engineering resources to making a vehicle that can do more then any hybird vehicle to date has been able to do.
But the Volt, at the end of the day, hurt GM more. GM will lose money on every car. But Toyota loses money on every Prius they sell too.
Cars like the upcoming Chevy Cruze, with the ability to hit 40mpg or greater with no help from hybrid technology, is what will save GM. They can turn out several hundred thousand of these vehicles, making a solid compact car for teh first time in...ever, and perhaps turn a profit after a year or so of selling them.

Making Firebirds, RWD performance cars, and the like wont save GM. At this point, they are thier own worst enemy.
Poor marketing, poor brand direction, poor vehicle management, ****** PR team, and a solid 30 year run on being the tail end of quality, design, durability, has taken its toll and most americans wont ever consider a GM vehicle. Throw in the fact that they are paraded in front of national TV talking about how they are gunna fail, and how the hell are you gunna get people to buy thier vehicles? It was on everyones lips at the autoshow. Everyone I talked to at both press and public days kept brining up the same stupid "well, who knows if they will be around much longer."

Let me put it this way. While the name GM might disappear, Chevrolet, Cadillac, and Buick names will not. They will be bought up, cut up, moved around, what have you, but these names will not be going anywhere.