Your 2008 ECN Review - The good, the bad & the ugly

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by CHRIS67

OK, new guy here with attending only 2 F body shows so go easy on me.

What if we had the public vote on each generation like what has been happening, but we have some of the founding members/moderators here vote on the best Camaro and best in show out of the top cars that the public picked?

Because of the inevitable accusations of favoritism. That is why we have no judging now, just popular ballot, to prevent that. We got enough headaches, lol.

We've kicked around a Power Members Select award which most likely will happen next year. We could do some other one-offs as well - mod award, sponsor award, etc.

I should have won an award for 1st time a site Admin had a car at the Nats.....

[CHRIS67]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Because of the inevitable accusations of favoritism. That is why we have no judging now, just popular ballot, to prevent that. We got enough headaches, lol.

We've kicked around a Power Members Select award which most likely will happen next year. We could do some other one-offs as well - mod award, sponsor award, etc.

I should have won an award for 1st time a site Admin had a car at the Nats.....

I don't think anyone would complain. Without you guys we wouldn't have the F body nats, or this site for that matter. Who else here is with me?

[brp88gta]

i agree, some special awards by other people other than the public would be nice and break it up a bit

[79CamaroDiva]

Originally Posted by CHRIS67

I don't think anyone would complain. Without you guys we wouldn't have the F body nats, or this site for that matter. Who else here is with me?

stick around for a while and you'll realize that everythign that goes wrong is our fault

[BonzoHansen]

Ain't gonna happen Chris!

[ramairjohn2000]

guys this was one of many shows i go too but my first with you guys.
1. good times and i show to just show, have fun, and meet new people, and even though i drove for an hour for what i considr a small turnout ihad a good time
2. tnt doesnt matter, the main event is the show in my opinion and the track is a bonus to drag on if you want to
3. showing your car with the hood open or not, trunk etc, is owners preference, me personally unless you have some crazy underhood stuff i like it better with the hood closed and my interior is your standard stock black ws6 interior big deal, so i dont think it should be pints deducted or that?
otherwise good times i think the biggest thing we could do is get more sponsorship, exposure and just get more people there and open it up to our fellow gm tech enthusiasts? either way good job and i look forward to next year's-
john the pennsylvania guy

[Pampered-Z]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

I should have won an award for 1st time a site Admin had a car at the Nats.....

Well, it was when I was pre-mod... But I took home Best Engine, Best Engineered and 3 overall!

Plus that's breaking the rules, Mods aren't allowed to have running F-bodies!

[79CamaroDiva]

Originally Posted by Pampered-Z

Well, it was when I was pre-mod... But I took home Best Engine, Best Engineered and 3 overall!

Plus that's breaking the rules, Mods aren't allowed to have running F-bodies!

he did say admin...

[BurninrubberGT]

suggestion for next time-

a stock class, or non restored class (1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen), for people who spend their time keeping the paint/engine/interior in good condition that has been there since it left the factory.....for people who cant dump money into a new paint job and drop in a new engine and interior


but it was a great show(minus the rain), a ton of awsome f-bodies, and cant wait for next year

[edpontiac91]

I know that this may be beating the Dead Horse to Death, as I realize that the date has to do about when the club was founded, but what if the club was founded in the middle of Winter. Your chances of getting a rain free date in the middle of August is really tough due to the fact that T-Storms pop up almost every other day. If the show could be held in September or better yet October, you would get great Fall weather, better racing temps and of course much more comfortable conditions for both the show cars and the racing crowd. I think the fee for spectators should be lower. You might get more people to come and the plus to that(for the show crowd)is that those people would get a ballot to vote for their favorite car. You could also try to get people who run the Trans Am Nationals(in Dayton, Ohio)to advertise the Event in their area and also the crowd that put on the Event in Saratoga Springs. Getting pictures in High Performance Pontiac and a Chevy magazine will also bring up the level of it being a QUALITY SHOW N' GO event and get more cars involved. Just my

[EchoMirage]

i seem to remember tim saying something about having some sort of joint venture with pontiac enthusiast at last years show.......not much came of that, in terms of advertising or anything.

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by Pampered-Z

The NJFBOA puts this event on with a very low budget, the club sponsors and what donations we can get, and allot of donated time. Starting with Island Dragway basically letting us take over the track for free. If we had the money for an outright track rental, or car count high enough to get exclusive use of the track things would be different. So having T~n~T cars there is just something we can't control right now. I work at a dragstrip and know what it cost. And we really have to thank and appreciate Island dragway letting us do this each year. They would be loosing money with just us there. Trust me, there are very , VERY few tracks that would let anyone do this, you would need to rent the track, and the cost wouldn't be like a track rental for 10 cars. You need allot of money to take over a track and run an actual competition event, full staffing and prep'd lanes is allot of overhead!

Just to add to the part of this in bold....I heard comments about this from a few people at the track this year. I think people seem to think that taking over a track for a day would cost the same as your normal track rental. We talked to Atco Raceway about 5 years ago about putting on an event at their facility, and their price quote to us for exclusive use of the track for a Sunday event was over $20,000 (and I'm sure it has gone up since then). At that price, we would need to get 400 people through the gate @ $50 each just to break even, and that doesn't include money for payouts or trophies. Just something to think about when you feel the need to complain about the Test N Tune cars (believe me - I wish we didn't have to deal with them either).

Originally Posted by brp88gta

i agree, some special awards by other people other than the public would be nice and break it up a bit

This is something that we are definitely going to look into. Another idea that someone gave to me in person was to only allow the show participants to vote for Best of Show.

Originally Posted by BurninrubberGT

a stock class, or non restored class (1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen), for people who spend their time keeping the paint/engine/interior in good condition that has been there since it left the factory.....for people who cant dump money into a new paint job and drop in a new engine and interior

This is something that we will definitely look into once the show grows. At this point, adding in too many classes just means that spectators have to spend more time voting (which means less time talking to owners about show cars, watching racing, etc).

Originally Posted by EchoMirage

i seem to remember tim saying something about having some sort of joint venture with pontiac enthusiast at last years show.......not much came of that, in terms of advertising or anything.

Without pointing fingers or placing blame, there were a lot of great promotional ideas that were discussed last fall/winter that could not be accomplished because of events in Tim's personal life. We will be working around any such issues for all future events.

- Justin

[blown69rat]

Ok, the one guy on the site who does NOT have an f-body...time for me to chime in!! LOL

From what I understand, Tim, Justin, and the rest of the guys do the best they can with what they have, and from what I understand, they do a pretty good job. I've read every suggestion in this thread, some are good, some are not, and some are just WAY out there!! Here's my thoughts on what has been said, my knowledge of the show (although, I am going with 2nd hand info since I don't attend), and maybe some helpful info from someone who runs shows:
1. Participant vote is just that. If people vote for one car to win multiple awards, it's gonna happen every year. If you leave it participant vote, maybe change that up a bit...Participant vote goes for "x" awards. "Specialty" awards like best in show, best engine, etc are prof. judged
2. EXPAND!!!!!!!! In this I mean (like what is said), get the word out there more. Try and get BIG names involved (which is not hard to do). Play around with the name of the show (East Cost F-Body Nationals), get sponsors to pay for the awards.
3. door prizes and goody bags. I haven't seen anything mentioned about this. Do you guys have them??
4. Modify the awards. In my PERSONAL opinion they need to be tweaked a bit.
5. Open the car show up to possibly other vehicles. DON'T TAKE OFFENSE ON THIS ONE. If you look at quite a few tracks around, when they do a "all chevy show", their turnout is 250+ cars!! What I am saying is actually doing a show within a show. Run an all chevy show (or gm show) and run the f-body nats within it. Basic car show and awards for everyone else, the f-body nats guys would have different awards, etc. This way you could easily double the car show count and possibly the spectator turnout. By doing this, you end up with more money for the track, more money for other stuff.
6. Like Joe said, run a true street type event for the racing guys with awards for quickest, 10.0. 12.0, etc.
7. Maybe give a $50-100 payout to the guy racing with the best reaction time.
8. How many cars were racing, maybe doing awards for top 10 race cars. This would have to chosen by those running the event.
9. Maybe have a daily driver class for everyone who does drive their car everyday. This would seperate the occasionally driven show cars from the guys who drive their car everyday but also like to show them off.

I have lots more ideas that could or could not help. But for now, this can give you guys something to "chew" on. With that being said, change is always good, sometimes for the better and sometimes not. Some of these suggestions might help in one way but hurt in another, so take them as you will.
Brian

[Untamed]

I really enjoyed the show and racing and didn't mind the spectator cost. Island has done a lot for the club, so spending just a little more to help them out is just as good as supporting the club financially. The track folks had the place set up well, with two lines at the gate to get in (when I arrived after 12 noon) so didn't take but a few minutes to get through.

The NJFBOA tents at the front gate and by the track were easy to find, though handing out the bags at the front tent should go a little smoother. Folks rolling in need to get their bags at the front tent and move on, don't linger and chat, holding up the line. You can always walk back and talk.

There was more space between cars on the show field, making pictures a little easier for catching front-quarter shots. If it's possible, I'd still like to see cars backed at an angle. I also liked where the cars ended - well before the bridge. Safer that way, as folks wont be walking around the end car, looking at it and not paying attention to traffic going by.

While I agree more advertising is helpful, I think we can all surf the net and drop messages on other F-body boards about the event. Some folks in the club do that well, but we can all help out by adding traffic to the threads. Print media is up to the mods / admin and the budget available. To prove some advertising worked, I had a chance to talk with a family that JUST moved to NJ from Canada. They'd heard about the event and stuffed four adults and a dog into a third gen Camaro, so the word does get out. The Camaro still had Ontario plates on it.

The only real negative experiences I had was the rain (duh) and that damn red... whatever the hell it was, in the TnT crowd. There's loud exhaust, and then there's obnoxious. That fool crossed the line. We shouldn't need hearing protection on the show field!

I really look forward to the Nats every year. Kids were disappointed they didn't go, but that allowed me more time to catch up with members, meet some new folks (<86TA>, love those wheels and spoiler!), and watch some racing.

Thanks guys.

[12secondv6]

My suggestion..... me not being sick and having surgery

I can't comment on the car show portion... I haven't visited it/ voted as it doesn't hold much interest to me.

For racing.... I'm very happy with the way it is structured.

The track is great, the employees are great...weather is beyond anyones control.

For the people that are complaining..... have you ever set up a huge racing/ car show event? Probably not. I think the admins and everyone involved do a great job at it..... do you realize that they also have lives???? They balence their life and create a great event.... keep up the great work.

Maybe add dodge neons to the event?

[BigAls87Z28]

Overall its good, and for the size we have, we shouldnt get too carried away. If say next year we have some 100 cars show up for show, and 150 cars show up to race, maybe we need to adjust the rules, but there is no sense in making up all these differnet things, and have 20 different classes in racing, 20 different show classes.

I agree that there should be a limit..well, dont want to say limit, but just one winner per class.
Best of Show means its the best car on the block, out of all gens, and all models.
Next would be best Camaro and best Firebird.
Then you can break it down into gens, but I would make engineering, wheels, and engine bay available to anyone.
I would then, if you were gunna go the route of the sponsor awards, open to anyone no matter if they won a NJFBOA award or not. So you could possibly walk away with best Camaro and Jeg's hottest chrome valve stem award or something...

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Untamed

If it's possible, I'd still like to see cars backed at an angle. I also liked where the cars ended - well before the bridge.

We tried to get people to park at an angle but it was a little difficult as other vehicles were parking in our area and some people (I dont remember who, nor would I point them out) seemed to have a problem with directions.

My suggestion for next year (from a staff standpoint) would be to get there earlier with every body who may be working there and have a 5 minute talk about who is going to do what. We were a little unorganized and it showed.
I would also say, if possible, to get the volunteers together before the show. Rather than pointing at me at dinner one night and say "you are staff this year" We should figure out what we need people to do, and ask people to volunteer. I didnt bring my car this year so I didnt mind helping out, and I got a small token of appreciation

[kazman]

I guess its about time I made a comment about the event.

I don't do the show side. I was involved in showing Pontiac's in the '80's and got back into the shows with my wife's MGB in the late '90's. Same issues then as now. Always issues with the show classes, popular vote vs judge, stock vs modified classes, owner with the deepest pockets, red convert vs the 4 door cab, etc. I did notice that a lot more were showing than racing. I think that each year the show will get better and more organized. Each year the show is evulated and changes are made. Show people, please give constructive ideas and ones that don't directly benifit you. Thinks of the big picture.

On the racing side. I was happy this year with the classes. I think the rain really kept many away. There was only 1 in the real street tire class. The classes were merged and he was forced to run with the race tire cars. I think he should of received a win for his class then allowed to race in the the other class if he wanted. I really though that the true street tire class would attract a bunch of cars. ??????? Maybe have a pre-race "bracket racing class" for beginners so they feel more confortable in running the car. I did feel a little rushed and confused in the pits waiting for my class to be called. I almost missed a time shot. Maybe an earlier gate time to let the group get organized and to let the participants know what's going on. Higher payouts would attract more bracket racers which in turn would discourage newcommers. Perhaps a trophy only class for street and drag radial tire cars (BFG, Nitto, and Mickey Thompson Street Radials). If you do want to attract more racers schedule the event after bracket points are done (after September). A fall meet may bring out more cars.

Last thing is a THANK YOU for all the hard work done by just a handful. I always look forward to this event. See ya next year for an even better event. Oh yea just once I would like to see good weather on the Friday Mustang vs F-body race.

[twin99]

Anyone have any pictures of the show side?

Was it anything like the TA nats in Ohio?

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by twin99

Anyone have any pictures of the show side?

Was it anything like the TA nats in Ohio?

http://www.alexqphoto.smugmug.com/Events

- Justin