Foot Brake Brackets

[NJSPEEDER]

We are planning to run three foot brake style bracket classes. The idea is to cover as much ground as possible, from first timer entry level in their daily driver, through the experienced driver with a well prepared bracket car.

Please keep in mind that these are general outlines for discussion. Complete rules packages will not be posted until the fall (after the East Coast Nats). Many of the points discussed will have more complete definitions as we work towards the final rules packages.
Any driver may choose to race up a catagory if they wish.

1.True Street Radial: This class is intended for the occasional track warrior/first timer/daily driver.
All four tires are limited to radial construction, non-racing designed tires. Tires must be marked with a minimum tread wear of 150 on the sidewall to be eligable for this class. No drag radial or any other "racing" radial or bias ply tires allowed.
Cars will be required to have a "full interior", "common street equipment", and all cars in this catagory must run through mufflers (this class will require mufflers at all venues regardless of local noise rules).
Suspension must be of a factory style, and are limited to bolt on type modifications, no back halved cars allowed
No drag racing or bracket aid electronics of any kind allowed
No minimum weight or limits on tire size.

2. Drag Radial: Something for the slightly more modified and experienced bracket racer.
Drive tires are limited to racing construction radial tires and any radial construction tire with a treadwear of less than 150 stamped on the sidewall. No limits on front tire size or construction.
Cars will be required to have a "full interior", "common street equipment", and all cars in this catagory must run through mufflers*.
Suspension must be of a factory style, and are limited to bolt on type modifications, no back halved cars allowed
No drag racing or bracket aid electronics of any kind allowed
No minimum weight or limits on tire size.

3. Slick/Cheater Slick: For the seriously equiped foot brake racer.
Drive tires must be bias ply construction full or DOT "slick" tires.
Back halved, ladder bar, and 4 link cars accepted.
No interior or street equipment required.
All cars in this catagory must run through mufflers*.
No drag racing or bracket aid electronics of any kind allowed
No transbrakes or two steps allowed.
No minimum weight or limits on tire size.


Points System: Keeping with our theme of having everything be simple...... 10pts for each round a car appears in, the final round is worth 20pts to appear in, and winning the final round is worth an additional 10pts

[Fran D]

I still think you can combine 1 & 2. I feel you're over thinking the street tire issue. But, it's your decision.

[NJSPEEDER]

it is a seperation that we have used in the past with good success. this is the first time anyone had suggested teh treadwear minimum for the true radial class.
the class seperation came about after a friend of mine noted how many people said they wouldn't get into a bracket because they couldn't beat a car that had "racing tires".
the class usually turns out at least as big as the drag radial class, the first year of the old East Coast Nats at e-town in '01 true radial was actually as big at the drag radial and slick brackets combined.

[Fran D]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

...the class seperation came about after a friend of mine noted how many people said they wouldn't get into a bracket because they couldn't beat a car that had "racing tires".

COWARDS!

[NJSPEEDER]

lol

[kazman]

Originally Posted by Fran D

COWARDS!

Would you bring a knife to a gun fight?

Tim, I like the idea True Street: real street radials (4) tread wear of 150+.

Drag radial class should be tread wear 150 or less, say DOT, and say "Drag Radial". This would inclued bfg, nittio, mt et street radials, and hoosier drag radials. Nice that you can run any tire on the front in the drag radial class.

I would like to see the rules dropped for "full interior" and "common street equipment". These rules and the one requireing matching outside paint were originally set up by the sponsers of the EFI races who wanted pretty pictures for their mag articles. Gutting the interior doesn't lower .05 in ET. This is bracet racing, so if someone goes even .1 faster, so what. Can you say DIAL-IN. I put my interior back in and didn't see any loss of ET. Unless you remove your front power leather seat, the rest of the interior doesn't weigh a whole lot. I would rather see rules like, fenders, hood, and factory glass in the true steet and drag radial classes.

You might want to furter break the true street and drag radial into 2 more classes, 13.50 and slower and 13.49 and faster. This would allow nearly stock cars to put on drag radials and not have to face 11 and 12 second cars. In case of a low turnout put a rule in "less than 16 cars for the event the two classes (13.5+ and 13.49-) are merged".

Last let people run up to 2 classes for the day. So they can run heads up and brackets or 2 bracket classes. Give the option so people can move up a class. True Street can can also run in the Drag Radial class or a Drag Radial car can buy a second tech card and run with the slick cars. Double entry would be more runs for the cars and more revenue for the event.

Tim you know me well enough but to other people who post here, these are my options to better the event not to help me get and advantage. Good luck with the series.

[jl ws-6]

I dunno about the 150 wear #.. I mean factory equipped 4th gen cars came with goodyear F1 tires, they are a 91 or 97, something like that. I think a wear # would be a good way to dictata a legal tire.. but look at what the factory equipped tires of teh cars are and go off something like that... it's kind of hard to expect people to replace tires with stuff that's even harder then the factory put on.


Another thing to think about for this class... is no "treated tires".... the guys running fast series racing are chemicially treating tires and getting them to hook like a slick... not sure how that can be checked, btu there's got to be a way.

[kazman]

Originally Posted by jl ws-6

I dunno about the 150 wear #.. I mean factory equipped 4th gen cars came with goodyear F1 tires, they are a 91 or 97, something like that. I think a wear # would be a good way to dictata a legal tire.. but look at what the factory equipped tires of teh cars are and go off something like that... it's kind of hard to expect people to replace tires with stuff that's even harder then the factory put on.

Did a quick check on wear.

Nitto 555R Drag Radials 100

Hoosier Drag Radials 40 yes 40

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S run flats 400

Goodyear Eagle HP 380

No name Grand Spirit 320

Firestone Firehawk SS20 200

Firestone Firehawk 220

Kuhmo Escta 320

IMO any "street" radial will be greater than 150.

[Tru2Chevy]

According to TireRack, Treadwear on an O.E. 2002 Camaro SS GoodYear F1 GS tire is 300.

- Justin

[97transam]

Originally Posted by kazman

You might want to furter break the true street and drag radial into 2 more classes, 13.50 and faster and 13.49 and slower.

Yo Jim, ou need to edit that one, bud. You're confusing me. 8)

Originally Posted by kazman

Last let people run up to 2 classes for the day. So they can run heads up and brackets or 2 bracket classes.

I like that idea, maybe I'll try two here or there just to see how much "fun" the heads up is. Never know until I try it... but bracket is my main game.

Originally Posted by kazman

...these are my options to better the event not to help me get and advantage. Good luck with the series.

Yeah, well I'm still layering the zaino coats on the front fascia for lower drag coefficient so there!!!

[NJSPEEDER]

hmmm, allowing people to run 2 classes? just have to see how things look as far as schedules for the days. i would hate to see womeone get screwed in a later round because the classes are getting pulled too fast.
a ruling on this when we have some idea of what the tracks are looking for as far as schedules.

[kazman]

[QUOTE=97transam]Yo Jim, ou need to edit that one, bud. You're confusing me. 8)



Ron, I fixed the typo. After 10 beers it made perfect sense to me. Bhahahha Thanks buddy.

[NJSPEEDER]

any more feedback on the bracket racing rules?
i will be getting to work on the long versions of the rules next week, so if anyone wants to add anything this is the time to do it
rules are planned to be finalized by the end of september.

[Mrs Bandit]

2 thoughts after the F-body nats (which I enjoyed but would have liked to see more competition in the racing classes)...

1. Consider only 1 or 2 classes for footbrake (i think there was only one footbrake class at the f-body clash) until the race series becomes a well attended event. More cars / class makes for a better race day, in my opinion.

OR

2. Be open to merging classes on race day if there are too few participants in the classes.

The F2 class only had 9 cars in it on Sunday, and I think that was the biggest class. IMHO more cars = better races...and more importantly, better bragging rights!

[Batman]

How about power adders?

[JOE MORENA]

any style of a dot tire or slick tire class in bracket style racing it is handicaped cut a good light dial your car in and best package will be your winner

[NJSPEEDER]

Originally Posted by Batman

How about power adders?

power adders will be open. if anyone feels they can be consistant with boost/spray, go for it.

[12secondv6]

3. Slick/Cheater Slick: For the seriously equiped foot brake racer.
Drive tires must be bias ply construction full or DOT "slick" tires.
Back halved, ladder bar, and 4 link cars accepted.
No interior or street equipment required.
All cars in this catagory must run through mufflers*.
No drag racing or bracket aid electronics of any kind allowed
No transbrakes or two steps allowed.
No minimum weight or limits on tire size.


Now these are perfect rules for me You have made me happy

[NJSPEEDER]

oh goody.

lol

[Bandit]

I think you guys are over thinking it.. Keep it simple

DOT
Slicks
Heads Up

or

Time Brackets

upto 10.99
11.00-11.99
12.00-13.99
14.00 and up

[97transam]

Yep, as time brackets would kind of dictate the tires...

[NJSPEEDER]

just saying DOT tire leaves it too open and unfair to those who are newer to bracket racing. that is if they even bother at all knowing that they don't have the traction to compete.
i would be more likely to agree with putting the DR's with the slick tires since that is much less of a difference than a street radial vs a drag radial.

time seperations in brackets don't draw competitive cars. they also don't seem to impress spectators very much.

[j0n]

another vote for less classes and merging street/drag radials

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

just saying DOT tire leaves it too open and unfair to those who are newer to bracket racing. that is if they even bother at all knowing that they don't have the traction to compete.
i would be more likely to agree with putting the DR's with the slick tires since that is much less of a difference than a street radial vs a drag radial.

time seperations in brackets don't draw competitive cars. they also don't seem to impress spectators very much.

Once you know you have a crowd you can expand. 4 cars 6 cars in a class does not make for a good event either. If you over complicate its a nightmare in the making on your part and the track staff.

I say start small and change it for 2008 if things grow. The fairest way would be the time brackets if you are concerned about traction and so on.

[NJSPEEDER]

how are time brackets any more fair than sending someone on regular street tires against someone on drag radials?
a dreag tire will be far more consistant than a street tire, no matter what the ET of either car is.
time bracketing also has been proven over and over again to not draw any cars. seperating by tire type is a way to level the playing field for everyone.
like i said before, if classes are going to get combined it will be putting the DR's in with the slick/cheater slick crowd.