American Muscle Car Engine shootout

[bad64chevelle]

So flipping through the channels, I catch the last 20 mins of American Muscle Car on the Speed Channel, and they were doing an engine shootout from the 60s. They had these following motors up for competition on an engine dyno. They said all these motors are rebuilt to 100% factory spec.

1962 Chevy 409 2x4 barrel- Rated 409 HP--made 406
1967 Ford 427- Rated 425 HP--made 680
1963 Pontiac 421-Rated 405 HP--made 488
1967 Chevy 427 L88-Rated 425--made 527
1966 426 Street HEMI rated 425--made 820

Same HEMI motor that we are tossing in our 33 plymouth we are building, so I had to call my dad who was in the middle of a meeting and he goes "820??? HOLY *****...oh...ummm Jon Ill have to call you back when I get done"

If these numbers are right, I am really impressed with all of them..pretty sweet if ya ask me!

[GP99GT]

i knew it was underrated....but i dunno about that much

620 would be more believeable

[bad64chevelle]

Originally Posted by GP99GT

i knew it was underrated....but i dunno about that much

620 would be more believeable

Thats the area that I thought they were in, but who knows...looks like I will just have to do the test on my own now...

[Bandit]

bs on the 820HP, the hemi ran 11's on slicks out the showroom. 800HP it would be almost 8 second car.

I say most of the 425HP cars put out between 500-575HP maybe 600 if blueprinted.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by bad64chevelle

...They said all these motors are rebuilt to 100% factory spec. ...

I raise the BS flag on this statement. IMO, the Chevy #s are the most inline with expectations.

[bad64chevelle]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

I raise the BS flag on this statement. IMO, the Chevy #s are the most inline with expectations.

Thats what I was thinking with the "Factory Spec" I missed the first 10 mins, maybe I missed something but they said later on in the show about these motors being factory spec. Ill try to catch this show again later to see if I missed anything.

[WildBillyT]

I am going to have to call BS as well. My dad had a '66 Coronet that originally had a street hemi (it got pulled for a 440) and he states that it was not THAT fast.

Everything else seems OK though...

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Agreed with the BS. I was like WTF that's insane. they used headers and straight pipes tho too. But it doesn't help THAT much.

Chevy/Poncho are completely believable, Ford is iffy and i call no wai on the hemi.

[alexm]

i saw this too last night i didn't believe it but it was there on the computer screen it couldn't have been stock theres no freaking way

[NJSPEEDER]

was the test of an actual street hemi as delivered or the parts counter version?
i doubt a street car, as delivered, put out 820.
i woudl love to see what the pontiac ram air 4, 455, would have put out. everyone always says they were rated very conservatively, but how much i have never actually seen tested.

[alexm]

they made it out to be as they were delivered from factory those engines were clean as hell though just rigged upto the engine dyno and off they went

[EchoMirage]

Ram Air IV was a 400. All the Ram Airs (I-IV, and even the rare V) were 400s. the 455 you want to test is the 73/74 Super Duty.

[NJSPEEDER]

i thought the 71/72 455 available in the judge was RA4?

[johnjzjz]

Harold la flat was from dover NJ now passed - and he was a mopar factory driver in the 60s - his alloy fendered plym savoy off the show room was dynoed at 8 something and he had some years back showed me the sheets and many photos of him the cars and the race track events - their was no real way to see between what Chrysler said was street and race in those days - petties cars had the same power before they were banned -- nothing and i mean nothing could touch one of those original cars - but what they sold to the public was not what was in the hot sedans -- they were 13.5 to 1 cross ram 4s w/ 700 lift cams and were not 426 BTW - jz

[EchoMirage]

the 71/72 455s were HO, High Output. my friend has a 72 455HO trans am. rated around 310hp. fast, but not SD fast. also very rare in the GTOs. the 455 HOs had a rear spoiler with the "455 HO" decal.

[Bandit]

A friends buddy has a 1970 Hemi Cuda 425HP factory motor, it was blueprinted and dynoed 610HP @ the flywheel. thats 200HP less then 820 something is not right.

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by bad64chevelle

1967 Chevy 427 L88-Rated 425--made 527

That sounds right. I read somewhere that the L-88 dyno'd on another test at 535.

I had a RA IV 400 in my 70 'bird. It was faster than advertised, but not too much more. The 455SD was conservative, but that was also wen the emissions crap started weakening the motors a lot.

[Pampered-Z]

They said they were dyno'ng customer's engines, they weren't motors they pulled themselfs or built.

I raced 413s and 440s and also worked with a few hemis. The 440 in my challenger ( worked 440! not stock ) dyno'd over 750HP and no way a showroom Hemi could run with it!

The hemi had allot more then 425HP in those things right off the show room, and you could get maybe 550-575HP out of them with proper tweeking, and a bit more with some special direct-connection parts.

I'd say the hemi was a ringer! Since it is a 1966 motor, at 820HP I'd bet that is a hemi from a SS/A car that's been fully massaged and still called stock.

[EchoMirage]

the super dutys were nearly hand built, specially designed race motors for the streets. specifically designed for low compression, lower octane gas, with emissions. it had EGR, but it had nearly no flow and was basically just for show. they were, and still are, one of the fastest Trans Ams ever made.

[johnjzjz]

Originally Posted by Pampered-Z

They said they were dyno'ng customer's engines, they weren't motors they pulled themselfs or built.

I raced 413s and 440s and also worked with a few hemis. The 440 in my challenger ( worked 440! not stock ) dyno'd over 750HP and no way a showroom Hemi could run with it!

The hemi had allot more then 425HP in those things right off the show room, and you could get maybe 550-575HP out of them with proper tweeking, and a bit more with some special direct-connection parts.

I'd say the hemi was a ringer! Since it is a 1966 motor, at 820HP I'd bet that is a hemi from a SS/A car that's been fully massaged and still called stock.

I'd say the hemi was a ringer! Since it is a 1966 motor, at 820HP I'd bet that is a hemi from a SS/A car that's been fully massaged and still called stock.


THAN YOU WOULD KNOW GUYS LIKE JERRY STINE RACING WEDGE CARS -- AND THE CLASS I THOUGHT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WAS -SS/A THE FACTORY ONLY RAN THAT WITH THE HEMIS EVEN TODAY BARTONS MOTORS MAKE A LITTLE OVER THE ORIGINAL # S -- WEDGE MOTORS NEVER RAN THE ALL OUT HEMIS THAT I CAN REMEMBER IN MATCH RACING - BUT MAYBE THEY DID -- JZ

[Pampered-Z]

Originally Posted by johnjzjz

I THOUGHT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WAS -SS/A THE FACTORY ONLY RAN THAT WITH THE HEMIS EVEN TODAY BARTONS MOTORS MAKE A LITTLE OVER THE ORIGINAL # S -- WEDGE MOTORS NEVER RAN THE ALL OUT HEMIS THAT I CAN REMEMBER IN MATCH RACING - BUT MAYBE THEY DID -- JZ

I think your right, been many years but I think 440/B bodies were SS/D, not sure about 413. Our 413 was a bracket/street car. I'm just saying that mopar really underrated the hemi, but I can't believe they came off the assembly line anywhere near 800HP.

I do have a friend that run a 68 hemi cuda SS/AH. I want to get his thoughts on the 820HP number.

[johnjzjz]

the guys i knew that raced hemis in the 60s and 70s were for the most part coddeled buy the factory even though they said they dident - the cars i was refering to were the ones from Mr norms dealership ( detroit ) and others like that were factory stores delivering all out ss/? cars as so called street bought at and delivered from the dealership - that smoaking mirror was a ploy no one as a buying public could buy one they were all pre determined who was getting them - radio heater deliete card board door panells extra thin glass for windows alloy body parts bumpers and lightened frames all as a off showroom car - and the group down south had a handel on all of it ronnie sox - fords hollenm and mooney chevy forget who but dodge and pettie were one and the same - all of the factorys cheated thats why balwin motors / nicky chevy and many others did so well -- the hottest BBC camaro was the alloy Zl1 and it had a 3.875 inch stroke instead of 3.76 inch not really a 427 now was it --jz


the math on a 2800 pound car in the 9s with a 9 inch tire spinning almost to 1/2 track was how much power ????????????? --