Lutz on Camaro

[BigAls87Z28]

Lutz: Modern Camaro borrows from past

Rick Kranz
Automotive News / January 23, 2006 - 6:00 am



DETROIT -- Loud whistling and noisy applause greeted the Chevrolet Camaro concept as it was driven through the General Motors exhibit on its way to a stage at the Detroit auto show.

But unlike the equally praised Dodge Challenger concept and today's Ford Mustang, the Camaro does not merely display a strong retro theme.

Citing comments made by GM Chairman Rick Wagoner, GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz said: "You don't want to repeat the past slavishly."

Lutz explained the Camaro's design direction and issues that need to be overcome before production can be approved to Product Editor Rick Kranz and other journalists Jan. 9 at the show. Here are Lutz's comments.



Modern styling
I've got to say that Rick Wagoner deserves a lot of the credit for it because the early clay models that we had were much more in keeping with the '60s through the '70s.

Rick saw the pictures and said, "Why are we doing this? Let's have another go at it and create a new car that captures the spirit of the '69, because that is what you really want. You don't want to repeat the past slavishly. You want to do a vehicle that captures all of the spirit, the passion, the essence of the old car, but reinterpret it in a new and modern and contemporary way that is going to last awhile."

So that is what we did. Ed Welburn got a second team on it, which was led by Tom Peters, who had done the Corvette. Tom Peters very quickly -- very quickly, within weeks -- had this clay model going. And when we saw it, we knew it was right.

While the Mustang and the Challenger are very nice cars, I honestly think this goes beyond that. I like both of those cars, (but) they don't really break any new ground aesthetically. They are very close to the original car. Maybe that is a good thing, but we elected not to do that.

We elected to do a thoroughly new car with totally new surfaces that doesn't just make the same statement of the old car again, but in fact makes a new statement while capturing all of the spirit and essence of the original cars.

We have no production plans to announce. But this concept car was designed over a production architecture, using production mechanical units, and if and when there should be a production car, it would be as close to this as the production Solstice was to the concept.

Ever since the first day I got to General Motors, I have been getting mail from Camaro owners, Camaro clubs, Camaro fanatics. It is like a cult following out there. For the last few months I have been answering e-mails by saying, "Just wait for the Detroit show. I think you will be pleased."

I know where (Camaro) fits in the overall enthusiasm ranking. If it was a question of what would you like to do, I would obviously do this one first. We can't always follow our enthusiasm. We have to do what's right for the business.

It took us about six months on the Solstice to kind of get all the numbers together, see whether we could afford it, see if we could fit it into the engineering workload. It would probably be the same here.


Co-existing with Corvette
Don't forget that the Camaro and the Corvette did co-exist. But the Corvette is very expensive, and the Camaro was always very affordable. If we were to put this car into production, it would be priced with the Mustang, which means it would be only slightly over the Pontiac Solstice.

For production we would obviously do like we did in the old days -- you would have a popular-priced six-cylinder version, then you step up to an eight, then you step up to the next eight, all the way up to 500 hp or whatever size V-8s we have. Any V-8 engine that General Motors manufactures today is potentially slated for this car. You always would like to keep the Corvette with a few horsepower more than a Camaro. Theoretically, anything is possible.


Hybrids and V-8s
It is two markets. I mean, the whole country is schizophrenic.

On the one hand, we have one end of the market that is all ecology, hybrid, let's get the fuel cell as quickly as possible, very concerned about the potential impact of the car on society, and so forth. And at the other end of the spectrum, you've got people wanting ever more horsepower out of V-8s. They want V-10s, they want V-12s, they want the million-dollar Bugatti Veyron with 1,000 hp. So I would call it diversity in the market.

And in Hollywood, you have some people who are both. They will have a Lamborghini Gallardo and a Toyota Prius in the same garage.

That is the reality of the market. We just respond to it.
------------------------------------------------------------

This should answer some questions that some have.

[Ian]

so in six months they will know if they can make it or not? sick!

500 HP they say, I can deal with that 8)

[BigAls87Z28]

Eh...6 months secton, from what I understand, is done. They are testing the chassis now, and finishing up the testing. Camaro is coming, no doubt. Its a matter of what trim, engine,and color you want.

[LS1Hawk]

Didn't he get letters from Firebird enthusiasts? I know I had sent one!

[JL8Jeff]

I don't think GM would want the Firebird to compete against the GTO for the same market segment. I like that thought process they are using by not making the new Camaro totally retro like the Mustang and Challenger.

[LS1Hawk]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

I don't think GM would want the Firebird to compete against the GTO for the same market segment.

Yeah, I totally get that. Just the fact that they recognize the cult following of the Camaro, but not the Firebird bothers me. They could potentially alienate a large group of buyers.

[NJSPEEDER]

500hp
i am thinking NBM with a black interior if it is available. if not, you can't go wrong with black int/ext

[camaroracer1992]

i just hope they dont do a independent rear liek teh GTO, i want a solid axle, **** that half shaft ****

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by camaroracer1992

i just hope they dont do a independent rear liek teh GTO, i want a solid axle, **** that half shaft ****

It will come with IRS, but I'm sure it won't take long for an aftermarket 12 bolt kit to be on the market....

- Justin

[NJSPEEDER]

there are full weight GTO's running in teh low 10's on the stock IRS. i would say it will be good enough for a car that is likely to weigh 200ish lbs less with similar power.

[nj85z28]

I dont understand why everyone wants the firebird back so back too. all it was for the last 20 years of production was a camaro with a few body mods and different dash.

[jims69camaro]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

Yeah, I totally get that. Just the fact that they recognize the cult following of the Camaro, but not the Firebird bothers me. They could potentially alienate a large group of buyers.

did you know that the enthusiast sector of the market attributes only .05 to 1% of the total car marketplace? so, how many people, exactly, would be alienated by not having a firebird? i am not trying to say your opinion doesn't count, but when you go up against the bean counters, it's hard to press for a few thousand people in the grand scheme of things.

while there is a cash trail that can (finally!) be seen represented by the enthusiast that includes other things besides the car purchase, to the tune of millions of dollars of profit for any car company, they still have to push for the larger or more easily winnable situation. remember, there were 200,000 cars being sold when they gave it the ax. since they now have two juicy new vehicles in the pontiac lineup that shoot for other sectors of the market, while still dabbling in the enthusiast sector, it would only be further confused with a firebird. there was never really much difference between the two cars, so why compete against yourself or make the buyer choose between marques under the same roof (namely, chevrolet and pontiac)?

i've owned both and i can truly say that it doesn't bother me that there won't be a firebird. 6 of one, half dozen of another, in my book. of those diehard firebird fans, who will only drive a firebird and are planning to boycott the camaro: who are they really hurting by not buying a camaro? i say they are shooting themselves in the foot.

it would be really cool if there was aftermarket support with sheetmetal or a body kit nostalgic of the firebird.

[WayFast84]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

Didn't he get letters from Firebird enthusiasts? I know I had sent one!

If the camaro isnt a retro but just like the 69 maybe gm should do a full retro with a bird....be totally different cars because I would rather drive a indian then a bow tie

[qwikz28]

there will be no more firebird. that is all there is to it. no matter how much bitching and moaning the firebird crowd produces it will not return. bob putz said it a couple years back and if he made such a bold statement at that time he certainly meant it. this firebird talk is making me sick...

edit: post #1320!

[LS1Hawk]

Originally Posted by jims69camaro

did you know that the enthusiast sector of the market attributes only .05 to 1% of the total car marketplace? so, how many people, exactly, would be alienated by not having a firebird? i am not trying to say your opinion doesn't count, but when you go up against the bean counters, it's hard to press for a few thousand people in the grand scheme of things.

while there is a cash trail that can (finally!) be seen represented by the enthusiast that includes other things besides the car purchase, to the tune of millions of dollars of profit for any car company, they still have to push for the larger or more easily winnable situation. remember, there were 200,000 cars being sold when they gave it the ax. since they now have two juicy new vehicles in the pontiac lineup that shoot for other sectors of the market, while still dabbling in the enthusiast sector, it would only be further confused with a firebird. there was never really much difference between the two cars, so why compete against yourself or make the buyer choose between marques under the same roof (namely, chevrolet and pontiac)?

i've owned both and i can truly say that it doesn't bother me that there won't be a firebird. 6 of one, half dozen of another, in my book. of those diehard firebird fans, who will only drive a firebird and are planning to boycott the camaro: who are they really hurting by not buying a camaro? i say they are shooting themselves in the foot.

it would be really cool if there was aftermarket support with sheetmetal or a body kit nostalgic of the firebird.

I understand your points here as well. But look at Lutz's words, "It is like a CULT following out there." When he says "cult", who do you think he's talking about? Sounds like he's mainly addressing the enthusiasts. What about the cult following for the Firebird? I don't think that just upped and died. Come on guys, we all know very well what someone says in this industry one day doesn't mean much the next. GM a few months back said Zeta was dead.... but magically the Camaro Concept now sits on it. I understand how you could potentially be creating competition within your own divisions, but had not the Firebird, GTO, Corvette, Camaro, and Chevelle all exist at one point together? Are we forgetting the 33 years Camaro and Firebird shared? Don't tell me you guys wouldn't love to have that again.

Look, I'm not trying to make anyone sick by talking about another Firebird, but why would it? Is Firebird now some evil car, a bad word for GM? Am I like the only one here who still likes it?

[Ian]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

I understand how you could potentially be creating competition within your own divisions, but had not the Firebird, GTO, Corvette, Camaro, and Chevelle all exist at one point together? Are we forgetting the 33 years Camaro and Firebird shared? Don't tell me you guys wouldn't love to have that again.

I would love to see it again, but its a different ballgame these days. back then the chevelle and gto were full size cars. They also had drasticly different motors and options. the Camaro and Firebird were also very different from one another because back then pontiac had different motors, trans', rears and interiors than chevy did. The corvette is off in a league of its own and always has been.

These days, everything is corporate. all gm lines use the same motors and trans'. they all have similar interiors and a lot of them share chassis structure. the line that distinguishes one car from another is a lot finer now than it used to be.

[BigAls87Z28]

Chevelle, GTO, and other "muscle cars" were ususaly hi-po versions of normal duty cars. You could get a 4dr and 5dr wagon Chevelle, but its the coupe that caught the attention.
Market is much different today then it was back in the 60's. Imports and SUV's play bigger rolls in todays car culture then they ever have.

And you know what, everyone rags on GM for using the same engine in several brands, same trans, same set up. They were the ONLY car maker back in the day that had different engine plants for the different divisions. Hemi was shared across ALL of Mopar, as was the rest of Chrysler and Fords motors. You could get a 429 CJ motor in a Cougar, 351 in a Linc.
GM was the ONLY company to use seperate engines.

And actualy, GM is trying to get away from badge engineering as much as possible. They ususaly save that for trucks/vans. Not many cars, if any, are badge engineering.
Take the W body. You have Grand Prix, Impala/Monte, and the LaCrosse.
GP has the 3.8SC and the 5.3 V8, Impy/MC has the 3.5, 3.9, and 5.3 and the LaCrosse has the 3.8 and new 3.6. All three have totaly different interiors, exteriors, and suspension tuning.
Look at the Epsilon cars as well, Malibu/Maxx, G6, Aura, 9-3, and Vectra. Only 2 cars that loook the same are the Aura and Vectra, but they are not sold in the same market. G6 has a bigger 4cy and optional 6spd manual on the big 3.9 V6. 9-3 has a turbo 2 liter 4 and a turbo 2.8 V6 with 6spd auto or manual. Aura will get the big 3.6 V6 with the new GM 6spd auto. G6 comes in sedan, coupe and hard top convertable. There are 2 wheel bases....
I could go on and on.
When you compare them to Ford or even Chrysler, they tend to share more steetmetal and interior design as well has have the SAME engine set up. Take a look at the new C3 cars, the Ford Fusion, Merc Milan, and Linc Zepher. All 3 look very much alike, interiors on the Ford and Merc are pretty much the same, and the only major difference are grills and options.
Anyway, just wanted to mini rant right there.

[qwikz28]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Chevelle, GTO, and other "muscle cars" were ususaly hi-po versions of normal duty cars. You could get a 4dr and 5dr wagon Chevelle, but its the coupe that caught the attention.
Market is much different today then it was back in the 60's. Imports and SUV's play bigger rolls in todays car culture then they ever have.

And you know what, everyone rags on GM for using the same engine in several brands, same trans, same set up. They were the ONLY car maker back in the day that had different engine plants for the different divisions. Hemi was shared across ALL of Mopar, as was the rest of Chrysler and Fords motors. You could get a 429 CJ motor in a Cougar, 351 in a Linc.
GM was the ONLY company to use seperate engines.

And actualy, GM is trying to get away from badge engineering as much as possible. They ususaly save that for trucks/vans. Not many cars, if any, are badge engineering.
Take the W body. You have Grand Prix, Impala/Monte, and the LaCrosse.
GP has the 3.8SC and the 5.3 V8, Impy/MC has the 3.5, 3.9, and 5.3 and the LaCrosse has the 3.8 and new 3.6. All three have totaly different interiors, exteriors, and suspension tuning.
Look at the Epsilon cars as well, Malibu/Maxx, G6, Aura, 9-3, and Vectra. Only 2 cars that loook the same are the Aura and Vectra, but they are not sold in the same market. G6 has a bigger 4cy and optional 6spd manual on the big 3.9 V6. 9-3 has a turbo 2 liter 4 and a turbo 2.8 V6 with 6spd auto or manual. Aura will get the big 3.6 V6 with the new GM 6spd auto. G6 comes in sedan, coupe and hard top convertable. There are 2 wheel bases....
I could go on and on.
When you compare them to Ford or even Chrysler, they tend to share more steetmetal and interior design as well has have the SAME engine set up. Take a look at the new C3 cars, the Ford Fusion, Merc Milan, and Linc Zepher. All 3 look very much alike, interiors on the Ford and Merc are pretty much the same, and the only major difference are grills and options.
Anyway, just wanted to mini rant right there.

my biggest gripe is the damn gmt-360 trucks. how many are there now?

1. Trailblazer
2. Envoy
3. Bravada (no longer made though)
4. Ascender (but they only sold about 5 of them)
5. 9-7X
6. Ranier
7. SSR (doesnt really count cause it doesnt look like the rest)

the gmt-800 is even worse but the similarity between all these trucks is what makes it so annoying

[BigAls87Z28]

The 360 trucks are very similar, but the new 900 trucks are different, especialy Caddy from GMC/Chevy.

[qwikz28]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

The 360 trucks are very similar, but the new 900 trucks are different, especialy Caddy from GMC/Chevy.

i cant wait to see the new tahoe at the auto show this year. the japanese trucks look wimpy in comparison and i think the tahoe is gonna grap a huge market share.

[Fastbird]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

Yeah, I totally get that. Just the fact that they recognize the cult following of the Camaro, but not the Firebird bothers me. They could potentially alienate a large group of buyers.

Yup, I'm one of them. No firebird = me buying a Challenger.

[Savage_Messiah]

you = seeing camaro taillights, have fun :P

[camaro2you]

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

you = seeing camaro taillights, have fun :P

lmfao haha.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by qwikz28

i cant wait to see the new tahoe at the auto show this year. the japanese trucks look wimpy in comparison and i think the tahoe is gonna grap a huge market share.

You can go to any Chevy dealer, they should have them on display. I actualy saw a Solstice AND a Sky yesterday, just thought Id add that.

I hope they come out with a cool lift kit for the Challenger when it comes out. I wonder what the towing capacity will be on it?

[Ian]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

You can go to any Chevy dealer, they should have them on display. I actualy saw a Solstice AND a Sky yesterday, just thought Id add that.

I hope they come out with a cool lift kit for the Challenger when it comes out. I wonder what the towing capacity will be on it?

WHERE!?!?!?!?!