Break Fade Symptom???

[NightRydaSS]

ok, here is the deal: I have powerslot slotted rotors on my car with some pep-boys pads (it was the last warm weekend last yr and i forgot to order pads and needed the rotors installed asap so i just did it). i notice when im going fast and hit my breaks, sometimes my "no trac" light pops up on my dash and the peddle/car gives me the same feeling as when ur sliding on snow/ice. Kinda like the breaks give out. This only happenes when i press my breaks hard/sudden while traveling highway speeds. mind you that my tires do NOT screech when this happens. is this just my ABS kicking in?

This is f'in annoying, and down right scary as hell when it happens and ur not expecting it to (like tryin to advoid an accident). is this a break pad issue; will a set of HAWKS solve this? Or is this a caliper/piston issue? i have twin pistons up front and single in the back. Listen, i want my damn car to "stop on a dime and give me change" when i hit my damn breaks, i dont want to feel like im sliding on ice and feel like my breaks are giving out on me.

Case and point: it was raining in april (go figure) and some lady slid out going around a corner and hit the curb. Well traffic went from a 60 mph cruz to a dead stop and i hit my breaks and started to slide around the corner. Im not stranger to sliding (on purpose) so i want able to handle it, but my car wouldnt stop. That damn "no trac" light popped up and i slid. There was no screech, so i kno my tires didn't break traction.

how do i stop this ?

[ins0mnia24]

Even if your not hearing the tires screech it doesnt always mean your tires are still contacted to the pavement..
the fine sand/ dirt on most roads will still cause you to slide a little bit depending on how hard you are stopping..

The only true way to get better braking performance is by upgrading to better calipers and bigger rotor's...

Then chose your pads carefully and for your application..
The Hawk pad's won't cure your problem and if you have nice rim's the brake dust is lethal.
The metallic compound flake's off hot and imbed's into the wheel's..
They are also noisier than ceramic pad's
My front rims are completely trashed by the hawk compound

[NightRydaSS]

just once id like to hear someone say "don't worry; it is a $2 solution and here is how to fix it..."

ugh, what is i just bought 4 pistion calipers, steel braided lines, and pads? Would that be any better? I mean i just put those rotors on last yr and i like them.

Also, what pads would u recomend then?

And one last thing; would HAWK pads still kill my rims in i seal the chrome and wash them once a week (like i do anyways)?

[NightRydaSS]

it ONLY happens when im going highway speed and i have to hit the breaks hard (like someone infront of me comes to a complete stop b/c they r dumb) and i have to go from like 45 mph to 5 mph in 30 ft or something like that. it is like the calipers cant grab hard enough to hold onto the rotor and stop the momentum.


btw, there is no SES or Check Engine light on, or one that even flashes on. and if it was the wheel speed senor, wouldnt it happen while driving?

[Knipps]

is this because the pedal is vibrating on such a short stop?
that's your ABS

[NightRydaSS]

there is a slight vibration, and i kno that the vibration is the ABS. Is there anyway to stop this or should i say make it less prone to happen?

could different calipers imporve this? am i even able to just swap to 4 piston calipers?

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by NightRydaSS

just once id like to hear someone say "don't worry; it is a $2 solution and here is how to fix it..."

Not $2. Maybe $9.

What color is your brake fluid? When was the last time it was bled?

Yes, friction material can make a difference, moreso than surface area.

[SamhainZ28]

+1 for the brake fluid, have you even checked the level of the fluid?

[qwikz28]

how good are your tires? bad tires could cause this sensation your speaking of

[NightRydaSS]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Not $2. Maybe $9.

What color is your brake fluid? When was the last time it was bled?

Yes, friction material can make a difference, moreso than surface area.

black as crap, don't kno, i never bled it....lol. could that really be the cause?

[NightRydaSS]

Originally Posted by qwikz28

how good are your tires? bad tires could cause this sensation your speaking of

tires are brand new

[NightRydaSS]

Originally Posted by SamhainRS27

+1 for the brake fluid, have you even checked the level of the fluid?

yea, i checked the level, it is where it should be

[NightRydaSS]

I don't think it is an ABS module issue either; the car stops fines normally (99% of the time), it is just under really sudden hard stops the "NO TRAC" light comes up sometimes. It doesn't ALWAYS happen, it has to be a really sudden highway speed stop. it gives me the same feeling like im sliding on ice/snow. there is also no "SES", "CHECK ENGINE SOON", or "ABS INOP" lights that are on or that even flash when it happens.

I could flush the brakes, i know Powerslot recomends DOT4 and i believe i have DOT3. I personally never bled or had the brake system bled by anyone and it is black. I could also throw on some steel braided lines and put some HAWK pads on it like Powerslot also recomends.

I just didn't kno if anyone else experienced the same issue.

[ins0mnia24]

Hawk pad's arent going to fix your problem
And what you are describing isnt brake fade..

Brake fade is caused by the build up of heat on the braking surfaces after repeated application of the brakes during high speeds/ high loads ect..

What you are experiencing is normal with these car's the Low Trac light is coming on because during braking, your tires are skidding/ slipping on the pavement..
Especially during hard or fast stops..

[NightRydaSS]

ok, so this is normal then. That is kinda what i thought/figured. I think im goin to go with the HAWK pads anyways just b/c these pads suck and that is what Powerslot recomends.

also, u make sense, b/c i also notice this happens when i go over a bump and have to hit my brakes.

thanks for all your input guys!


I might as well flush my system also, what DOT should i use 4?

[NightRydaSS]

I think next weekend ill do the pad swap, bleed the system (since i haven't done it yet, and dont think the previous owner ever did either), and put the steel braded lines on. then ill see where im at

[qwikz28]

Originally Posted by NightRydaSS

I think next weekend ill do the pad swap, bleed the system (since i haven't done it yet, and dont think the previous owner ever did either), and put the steel braded lines on. then ill see where im at

are you sure you're rotors aren't warped?

[NightRydaSS]

Originally Posted by qwikz28

are you sure you're rotors aren't warped?

yea, that is the reason why i replaced them last yr. The OEM ones were so warpped that my steering wheel would almost shake out of my hands. what Ins0minia24 said is right, i recreated it in front of my house. Im just goin to "beef" up what i have and wait till i can get a C5 front break conversion.

[WildBillyT]

If your brake fluid is black you will get a noticible improvement in your braking performance. Once the fluid boils or gets dirty it does not retain its normal behavior during operation.

DOT3 and DOT4 are compatible. I would replace it with what the vehicle calls for- I use Prestone Synthetic DOT3. I don't know why a rotor manufacturer would have any say in what fluid you use.

DOT5 is silicon-based and it is not compatible with DOT3 or DOT4.

[NightRydaSS]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

If your brake fluid is black you will get a noticible improvement in your braking performance. Once the fluid boils or gets dirty it does not retain its normal behavior during operation.

DOT3 and DOT4 are compatible. I would replace it with what the vehicle calls for- I use Prestone Synthetic DOT3. I don't know why a rotor manufacturer would have any say in what fluid you use.

DOT5 is silicon-based and it is not compatible with DOT3 or DOT4.

how would i get improvements if i change it (i am changing it, im just really curious). i could see this being true with oil b/c of how the engine uses it (all the heat, and the fact that it is being "grinded" away in the motor). I never thought brake fluid "went bad" like engine oil does from use. i always though of it like anti-freeze (where u might flush it once every 60K miles just b/c).

i think b/c these are a street/weekend strip (auto-x) rotor, they recomend the DOT4 for "abuse use", but im almost usre my cars has/normally uses DOT3.

[NightRydaSS]

Originally Posted by NightRydaSS

how would i get improvements if i change it (i am changing it, im just really curious). i could see this being true with oil b/c of how the engine uses it (all the heat, and the fact that it is being "grinded" away in the motor). I never thought brake fluid "went bad" like engine oil does from use. i always though of it like anti-freeze (where u might flush it once every 60K miles just b/c).

i think b/c these are a street/weekend strip (auto-x) rotor, they recomend the DOT4 for "abuse use", but im almost usre my cars has/normally uses DOT3.

also, just curious, what would happen if i put DOT5 in? does the silicon clog the pipes? isn't DOT5 "race breed"?

[BonzoHansen]

very spongy pedal...dot 5 is for trailor queens. IIRC, DOT5.1 is good, not the same as 5.

Just use 3, you really won't notice much over the others. I used Valvoline Synquest DOT3 in the Z and the pedal is good.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

very spongy pedal...dot 5 is for trailor queens. IIRC, DOT5.1 is good, not the same as 5.

Just use 3, you really won't notice much over the others. I used Valvoline Synquest DOT3 in the Z and the pedal is good.

I wouldn't go so far as to say very spongy, but you do get a more spongy pedal and it creates havoc with your ABS system IIRC.

DOT 5 is good for collector cars and partial use cars since it is not as corrosive as DOT3 or DOT4.

The thing about brake fluid is that when it boils or gets dirty it compresses more, so it doesn't work as effectively.

If your car is DOT3, stick with that since the system was designed for it.

[NightRydaSS]

Bleeding my brakes this weekend and doin the full swap...I bought 2 32oz bottles of brake fluid...is that going to be enough? Mind you i'm flushing the WHOLE system.

[WildBillyT]

If it's your only means of transportation you should probably buy a third bottle just in case.