GM, what no faith?

[LTb1ow]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...o-60000-miles/

I am sure Ford/Dodge will be quick to capitalize on this.

[xrelapse13]

Shame to see, especially in this day and age when most companies are increasing their warranty periods.

[WildBillyT]

Ford, Mazda, Subaru, Toyota, VW, and Honda all appear to have 5/60,000 warranties so this puts GM in line.

Knocking the warranty down does make a statement to consumers, though.

[Featherburner]

Originally Posted by LTb1ow

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...o-60000-miles/

I am sure Ford/Dodge will be quick to capitalize on this.

If by quick to capitalize you mean follow suit, then yes, I'm sure you are right.

[Blackbirdws6]

Originally Posted by Featherburner

If by quick to capitalize you mean follow suit, then yes, I'm sure you are right.

Agreed. Only a matter of time. Benz, BMW, etc all have lesser warranties too. This does send the wrong message but I don't think this will impact sales long term.

[Paul Huryk]

They must have looked at how cars/trucks in the 60k to 100k range get warranty work and put this out there. All about the all mighty profit margins...

[1320B4U]

100k warranty does play a great part in sales (esp for kia)...makess folks consider a brand they normally may not have looked at. Not a smart move as the price of cars still continue to rise and the cost of repairs are equally high. The brands that still offer solid 100k powertrain warranties will capitalize.

[LTb1ow]

I don't know much about emissions stuff on gassers, but good god will be this make for a ****** time after the factory/Federal warranty period ends on diesels..Nox sensor on an LML costs 700.00 and there are two of them. Changing out a particulate filter will cost thousands as will the egr and associated crap. Diesel guys are claiming this as a answer to continued pressure from Govt. to impose emissions stuff, it just costs to much for GM to offer long warranties.

Who knows, but still, kinda weird.

[BigAls87Z28]

Emissions are covered for 100k due to federal regulation IIRC.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Emissions are covered for 100k due to federal regulation IIRC.

Thought it was 80k?

[The_Bishop]

Either way, none of this bodes well. It will sure as hell influence *my* buying decisions in the future.

I think they're seeing that a large portion of their sales are leases, so the 100k warranty isn't a draw for someone that's going to possess the car for less than the warranty period, but what of those that don't lease?

[sweetbmxrider]

8 year/80k miles Federal Emissions Warranty.

You can still purchase extended warranties, don't understand all of the fuss....

[The_Bishop]

Well, the fact that you need to pay more money for them, as a starter. It also adds a perceived lack of faith in their own equipment with the lessening of the warranty.

Also, I'm pretty sure they're not lowering the cost of the vehicles, so you get less value for your $$.

[Mike]

They just went to the 100k in 2009ish too...

[qwikz28]

I'm willing to bet most consumers have no clue how long a manufacturer's warranty is or was when they go to purchase a car.

[sweetbmxrider]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Ford, Mazda, Subaru, Toyota, VW, and Honda all appear to have 5/60,000 warranties so this puts GM in line.

Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6

Benz, BMW, etc all have lesser warranties too.

Originally Posted by The_Bishop

Well, the fact that you need to pay more money for them, as a starter. It also adds a perceived lack of faith in their own equipment with the lessening of the warranty.

Also, I'm pretty sure they're not lowering the cost of the vehicles, so you get less value for your $$.

So who are you going to look at instead? This is nearly inline with every other auto maker out there. The differences are negligible. Hyundai offers a 10/100k but it does not appear to be standard nor is it transferable. I understand your perception but there doesn't seem to be another option.

[Mike]

Kia yo

[The_Bishop]

Er, Ram trucks? Any Chrysler? They're still 3/36-5/100.

[1320B4U]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

8 year/80k miles Federal Emissions Warranty.

You can still purchase extended warranties, don't understand all of the fuss....

Why would I want to pay for something that was free at 1 point. Was at the dealer today, new Tahoe 68k...average auto loan is 6years now. Depending on driving habits (my wife at 25k year) the warranty would be off in a little over 2 years. Not that I'm in the market for a new car at this point but having a 100k p/train is somewhat nice (esp since her '11 has another 10k left on it). 100k was nice, it showed confidence in a brand that was back by the gov't at one point. the offering showed the emergence of a 're-organized' better managed car company. Its like getting paid 100k a year then the next year they lower your salary to 60k...folks be like wtf...problems?

[sweetbmxrider]

Originally Posted by The_Bishop

Er, Ram trucks? Any Chrysler? They're still 3/36-5/100.

I'd rather a ford or gm product over a chrysler product, always. I also don't see the desire for such a long warranty. Most major issues are going to show up well before 50k miles and would be apparent on a large scale, not just 1 car, thus issuing a recall. Cars are designed and built to last around the 100k mark, and then, they start needing moderate to major repairs. Hell, spark plugs last 100k+. Stick to the routine maintenance and there isn't going to be an issue with the vehicle unless you abuse it or use it outside its designed purpose.

Originally Posted by 1320B4U

Why would I want to pay for something that was free at 1 point. Was at the dealer today, new Tahoe 68k...average auto loan is 6years now. Depending on driving habits (my wife at 25k year) the warranty would be off in a little over 2 years. Not that I'm in the market for a new car at this point but having a 100k p/train is somewhat nice (esp since her '11 has another 10k left on it). 100k was nice, it showed confidence in a brand that was back by the gov't at one point. the offering showed the emergence of a 're-organized' better managed car company. Its like getting paid 100k a year then the next year they lower your salary to 60k...folks be like wtf...problems?

Compare your current tahoe against your past tahoe and note all the differences as well as economical impact causing your jump in price. That is seen in everything in the world today. Now add in your "free" warranty that was built into the price of the vehicle and I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say.

[1320B4U]

Not following you but for the sake of arguing go ahead...price jump from prev model to newer one is to be expected...redesign, avail options over its predecessor, retooling, etc all adds the cost..understood however offering a lessor warranty doesn't sit well with most consumers. I can't see how anyone feels this is a great move on the part of the consumer or how it may affect sales. There's obv a reason why they pulled it, the cost of repairs after x (60k) amt of mileage was used quite often and costly to gm ...otherwise they would have left it.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by 1320B4U

There's obv a reason why they pulled it, the cost of repairs after x (60k) amt of mileage was used quite often and costly to gm ...otherwise they would have left it.

This is the problem with that situation. GM tried to show good faith to their customers by extending the warranty period to try to compete with other brands that have done the same...except GM's products dont stack up to the other when it comes to overall quality, fit and finish. Even if this decision wasnt based upon inflated warranty claims, it certainly looks like it was when you revoke the program. They shouldve just sat firm with the rest of the auto companies out there.

On a side note my Saturn Ion recently died at 200,000 miles and we were shopping new cars and went to look at some cars and GM didnt really have anything on the lot that had the fit and finish that Ford is carrying these days. I was impressed by what the blue ovals doing honestly, their entire lineup is nice.

[The_Bishop]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

I'd rather a ford or gm product over a chrysler product, always. I also don't see the desire for such a long warranty. Most major issues are going to show up well before 50k miles and would be apparent on a large scale, not just 1 car, thus issuing a recall. Cars are designed and built to last around the 100k mark, and then, they start needing moderate to major repairs. Hell, spark plugs last 100k+. Stick to the routine maintenance and there isn't going to be an issue with the vehicle unless you abuse it or use it outside its designed purpose.

Why would you say "brand x or brand y over brand z, always?" Brand loyalty is a fools game. When I went truck shopping and ended up with my dodge, I looked at all the domestic trucks out there. Ford had nice fit and finish, but at that time the only motor available was the modular motor, which is an overcomplicated pile of unreliable crap with no torque. That ruled out ford. It was a toss up between GM and Ram. The GM, at almost the same MPG, was shy 80HP and almost the same torque compared to the Hemi. Also, to get the decent motor, you needed to pick upscale (and expensive) models. I'm not a big fan of the extended cab doors on them, either.

The Ram had a 395HP Hemi, 20" wheels, 4wd and a sporty look (minus all the damned gaudy chrome geegaws on the GM numbers) with power windows, locks, AC, and no fancy extra crap in the Express trim. It handles better, drivers nicer, and was notably cheaper than the equivalent GM models. The extended cab setup has discrete doors for the rear seats, and the rear seats are far more comfortable, too.

Am I a Ram 'fan'? Nope, I just liked what they offered more than the other brands. Brand loyalty is a losing game, buy what fits your need.

In the two years and 25k miles I've used my truck, I have had zero issues with it.

[sweetbmxrider]

Originally Posted by 1320B4U

Not following you but for the sake of arguing go ahead...price jump from prev model to newer one is to be expected...redesign, avail options over its predecessor, retooling, etc all adds the cost..understood however offering a lessor warranty doesn't sit well with most consumers. I can't see how anyone feels this is a great move on the part of the consumer or how it may affect sales. There's obv a reason why they pulled it, the cost of repairs after x (60k) amt of mileage was used quite often and costly to gm ...otherwise they would have left it.

I don't understand, are you saying you now agree with what I stated?

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

This is the problem with that situation. GM tried to show good faith to their customers by extending the warranty period to try to compete with other brands that have done the same...except GM's products dont stack up to the other when it comes to overall quality, fit and finish. Even if this decision wasnt based upon inflated warranty claims, it certainly looks like it was when you revoke the program. They shouldve just sat firm with the rest of the auto companies out there.

On a side note my Saturn Ion recently died at 200,000 miles and we were shopping new cars and went to look at some cars and GM didnt really have anything on the lot that had the fit and finish that Ford is carrying these days. I was impressed by what the blue ovals doing honestly, their entire lineup is nice.

So you are going to tell me that chysler and hyundai are the #1 and #2 powertrains available, as this is what the warranty implies? You are going to say that mercedes and bmw have poor fit and finish as they both offer the lesser warranties? Are you currently shopping at kia for their excellent warranty offering? Is their fit and finish greater than bentley, rolls, etc?

Originally Posted by The_Bishop

Why would you say "brand x or brand y over brand z, always?" Brand loyalty is a fools game. When I went truck shopping and ended up with my dodge, I looked at all the domestic trucks out there. Ford had nice fit and finish, but at that time the only motor available was the modular motor, which is an overcomplicated pile of unreliable crap with no torque. That ruled out ford. It was a toss up between GM and Ram. The GM, at almost the same MPG, was shy 80HP and almost the same torque compared to the Hemi. Also, to get the decent motor, you needed to pick upscale (and expensive) models. I'm not a big fan of the extended cab doors on them, either.

The Ram had a 395HP Hemi, 20" wheels, 4wd and a sporty look (minus all the damned gaudy chrome geegaws on the GM numbers) with power windows, locks, AC, and no fancy extra crap in the Express trim. It handles better, drivers nicer, and was notably cheaper than the equivalent GM models. The extended cab setup has discrete doors for the rear seats, and the rear seats are far more comfortable, too.

Am I a Ram 'fan'? Nope, I just liked what they offered more than the other brands. Brand loyalty is a losing game, buy what fits your need.

In the two years and 25k miles I've used my truck, I have had zero issues with it.

I would expect 0 problems in 2 years and 25k miles. I have a tj wrangler with 61k miles and have had 0 problems. I have performed routine maintenance, that's it. Most of what you went for was what suited your taste in appearance and comforts, not so much the powertrain offering. Gen 3's and 4's are a fantastic platform, no questions asked. Your 20 inch wheels like to eat up chryslers weak steering and suspension components. Gm still has grease fittings on their components, improving their longevity. Chrysler always has a cheaper feel to them and the quality of their components are inferior to that of ford and gm, they are a smaller company so it is to be expected. Speaking to brand loyalty, why did you only look at domestic pickups? Gm's diesel is the best out there in the light-duty field. They were also using allisons behind some of the larger gas offerings, another unbeatable setup. I would love to see a cost to own comparison on your hemi vs a comparable gm setup. From what I gather, your 16 plugs are due every 30k miles. You take an additional quart of oil per oil change. How would this stack up against your fuel mileage savings? Its getting a little off topic in my reply but I think there is more to vehicle ownership than the basic comparisons most everyone looks at initially. I don't want to get into the fit/finish either as I'm not a body man. I do have a friend that has been in the body shop biz since before I was alive and we constantly butt heads in the chevy vs ford debate. He tells me that gm does have better fit and finish than the other domestics and also has strong dislike towards chysler products even though he owns an 08 wrangler unlimited. I guess we have a different perspective being in the repair industry so its hard to completely explain the viewpoints when its simply what you see and feel and compare on our day to day 9 to 5's.

[The_Bishop]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

I would expect 0 problems in 2 years and 25k miles. I have a tj wrangler with 61k miles and have had 0 problems. I have performed routine maintenance, that's it. Most of what you went for was what suited your taste in appearance and comforts, not so much the powertrain offering. Gen 3's and 4's are a fantastic platform, no questions asked. Your 20 inch wheels like to eat up chryslers weak steering and suspension components. Gm still has grease fittings on their components, improving their longevity. Chrysler always has a cheaper feel to them and the quality of their components are inferior to that of ford and gm, they are a smaller company so it is to be expected. Speaking to brand loyalty, why did you only look at domestic pickups? Gm's diesel is the best out there in the light-duty field. They were also using allisons behind some of the larger gas offerings, another unbeatable setup. I would love to see a cost to own comparison on your hemi vs a comparable gm setup. From what I gather, your 16 plugs are due every 30k miles. You take an additional quart of oil per oil change. How would this stack up against your fuel mileage savings? Its getting a little off topic in my reply but I think there is more to vehicle ownership than the basic comparisons most everyone looks at initially. I don't want to get into the fit/finish either as I'm not a body man. I do have a friend that has been in the body shop biz since before I was alive and we constantly butt heads in the chevy vs ford debate. He tells me that gm does have better fit and finish than the other domestics and also has strong dislike towards chysler products even though he owns an 08 wrangler unlimited. I guess we have a different perspective being in the repair industry so its hard to completely explain the viewpoints when its simply what you see and feel and compare on our day to day 9 to 5's.

While I may have no brand loyalty, I do prefer to buy domestic.

Powertrain *was* important when I was shopping. It was one of the biggest driving factors in my decision.

The ram's steering and suspension was redesigned and strengthened in 2013. The components are more robust. Also, I don't know if I'd call the earlier stuff 'weak'. I worked on some 2003-2010 1500 rams that had in excess of 150k miles on them with the factory parts still in place and in fair shape. Granted, these were stock trucks but if you modify anything you're taking things out of their design parameters. The fit and finish of the truck is fine. Is everything fake leather and fake wood coated? No, and that's fine by me. Nothing squeaks, rattles or vibrates. The ride quality of the new 5 link rear suspension beats the pants off leaf springs. There is *zero* axle hop.

A diesel wasn't in the cards because I don't have $60k to go diesel truck shopping with. I paid less than half that for my truck, and $30k buys a *lot* of gasoline.

Yeah, the plugs cost a bit more. The 30k miles/3 years isn't a big deal; an extra $16 for plug changes every 3 years is no big deal when I get 85 HP more. The extra quart of oil is similarly no big deal, especially when you go by the oil life monitor built into the truck... It's a *long* time between oil changes by the factory oil monitor.

You are right, there is more to vehicle cost than the apparent cost. And we are getting pretty far away from the original topic.

I didn't post to bash any brand. What I started out saying is there is a *perceived* value. If I'm Joe Public knowing diddly squat about anything, and I'm looking to buy a car, brand 'A' offers a 100,000 mile warranty, brand 'B' only offers a 60,000 mile warranty, you can bet that I'm going to wonder why brand 'B' has no faith in their own equipment. It doesn't matter that I'll likely run out of time before mileage. It's perception. On the other side of the coin there is the long-distance commuter. This guy *knows* he's mileage bound to run out of warranty, so in all likelihood he's going to lean towards the 100k warranty.

I don't see how this reduction is going to help their image *at all*, especially in light of the recent recall fiasco. I think it'll cost them more in sales than they would have saved in work but I'm no professional bean-counter.