Is 2nd death of the muscle car upon us?

[jims69camaro]

it doesn't matter. the end happened already, and the manufacturers bounced back and were able, through R&D, to develop true brute force with kind fuel economy. if they raise the bar, i don't think the corporations are going to let it get in the way. as stated, V8s are going to have DoD, so they'll conform to the expectations, anyway.

moot question.

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by sdm1234

The F150 doesn't even get 16mpg. It's more like 10-12. And you gotta love those turbo diesel trucks... lol

And for this specific average MPG in 2020, people either dont understand or are completely taking it out of perspective. It's only for the new '20 cars (that was wierd to type lol). I still drive my '78 6.6L TA around which gets 11mpg, and this has lasted 30 yrs so far! We have also have a perfectly good '65 Mustang we run around occasionally. That's 43 yrs old! With this new MPG thing going down, it'll only bring back the muscle cars. You just wait... It will be the return of the pony cars, due to restoration! The way I see it, people will bring the older cars back to life. Cheap, quality cars, cheap parts, cheap HP! Long live the F-Body!

With the new testing standards, they say that the 08 F-150 crew cab gets a MAX of 16mpg highway You're right though, with normal driving conditions its more like 12mpg.

And the new 6.4L twin turbo diesels are sick. With a computer controlled variable pitch primary turbo, you get a balance of raw power, and good fuel economy. There are no fuel efficiency ratings on the F-250s/F-350s, but I'm sure the diesel gets wayyy better gas mileage than the gas motors. I had a guy come in and trade in an 02 F-250 crew cab gas motor truck and he said it got 11mpg. The 6.4L is too new to have really accurate mpg numbers on them yet, but they're saying they should be around 20mpg under normal driving conditions. Compare that to a gas motor in the same truck and not only does the diesel motor pay for itself, but even negates the higher diesel costs over gas. Plus they last forever.

And I think you're right about the older cars. With the rising costs of new cars and slipping gas mileage ratings and taxes and such, a good older car or truck is another option to look at. Heck, I just bought an '87 F-250 diesel for the winter for $650 and the guy said just driving it around town he gets 18mpg, and thats without a turbo. I talked with some people at Banks and Hypermax about adding a turbo kit, exhaust, and intercooler and they both said the mpg should go up to around 25mpg. Not too bad for a giant 20 year old truck.

[BigAls87Z28]

A car like the Chevy Volt and other Plug In Hyrbids liek that will probably the next wave of gas saving cars. Going 50-100 miles without running on a drop of gas is the wave of the future. And if you need to, the engine is only to recharge the batteries, not to power the vehicle. In this case, the engine runs at idle, and consumes much less gasoline, acting like a generator on board.

[Knipps]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

A car like the Chevy Volt and other Plug In Hyrbids liek that will probably the next wave of gas saving cars. Going 50-100 miles without running on a drop of gas is the wave of the future. And if you need to, the engine is only to recharge the batteries, not to power the vehicle. In this case, the engine runs at idle, and consumes much less gasoline, acting like a generator on board.

but why? part of the whole global warming idea is that we burn a ton of fossil fuels to create electricity as well... unless they're going to tackle that too

[Predator86]

well were also the fatest country in the world so lets kill 2 birds with one stone and all buy bicycles

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Knipps

but why? part of the whole global warming idea is that we burn a ton of fossil fuels to create electricity as well... unless they're going to tackle that too

Ssshhhh..don't tell the greenies they are full of crap....


To me, improving MPG is more about energy indepednce then global warming...since I don't buy into manmade gw as much as I do the trouble with sand scum...

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Knipps

but why? part of the whole global warming idea is that we burn a ton of fossil fuels to create electricity as well... unless they're going to tackle that too

Not to mention that the conversion of energy from one form to another is inherently lossy.

[Knipps]

Originally Posted by Predator86

well were also the fatest country in the world so lets kill 2 birds with one stone and all buy bicycles

i feel like the hippie here but maybe it's my edjamucayshun talking

walking/biking is worse.. it takes so much energy to process the food we eat it's better to drive a mile to the store than to consume enough calories for the walk

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Originally Posted by Knipps

i feel like the hippie here but maybe it's my edjamucayshun talking

walking/biking is worse.. it takes so much energy to process the food we eat it's better to drive a mile to the store than to consume enough calories for the walk

Do you have the stats from that? I remember reading that from here before, but I want to cite it for my paper.

[Knipps]

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

Do you have the stats from that? I remember reading that from here before, but I want to cite it for my paper.

i probably said it then too
i'll look for it

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Knipps

i feel like the hippie here but maybe it's my edjamucayshun talking

walking/biking is worse.. it takes so much energy to process the food we eat it's better to drive a mile to the store than to consume enough calories for the walk

The flaw in that theory is we only eat enough to live....

[Knipps]

all done.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2195538.ece
discussed by hippies here: http://forums.treehugger.com/viewtopic.php?t=1206

[Dark_Knight7096]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

How New MPG Standards
Could Crimp Your Ride

The deal brokered by top Democrats

There's your answer.


Can i get a poll to see what they all drive?

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by Predator86

well were also the fatest country in the world so lets kill 2 birds with one stone and all buy bicycles

If Americans weren't so lazy that might be a good idea. A few months ago Paris setup bike rental stands all over the city to cut down on cars and mopeds and it has taken off and is doing better than they expected. Other cities all over Europe are now looking into doing the same thing. Not a bad idea.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by SteveR

If Americans weren't so lazy that might be a good idea. A few months ago Paris setup bike rental stands all over the city to cut down on cars and mopeds and it has taken off and is doing better than they expected. Other cities all over Europe are now looking into doing the same thing. Not a bad idea.

For many (most?) of us, that's not an option. I can't see riding a bike as far as some of us do to work every day. Just not feasible. In the cities, however, it makes perfect sense.

[Knipps]

Originally Posted by SteveR

If Americans weren't so lazy that might be a good idea. A few months ago Paris setup bike rental stands all over the city to cut down on cars and mopeds and it has taken off and is doing better than they expected. Other cities all over Europe are now looking into doing the same thing. Not a bad idea.

boston has it, and has for a while.
seems to be a good idea except for the idiots that don't lock it up properly and abandon it after the wheels get ripped off

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

For many (most?) of us, that's not an option. I can't see riding a bike as far as some of us do to work every day. Just not feasible. In the cities, however, it makes perfect sense.

yea, I meant for cities its a good idea. For the rest of us, Im not riding a bike 50 miles each way lol especialy in crappy weather.

[69BirdX]

CAFE failed because it has been unchanged for the last 16 years. If it was revised each year as it was suppose to be then there would be no problems. It acctuly dropped down a mpg making it worse then before.....Im just finishing up writing a 10 page essay on this for my english class ugh
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