Good Article in New Hemmings Muscle Machines - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

1QWIKBIRD · 07-03-2008, 06:07 PM

Most people know that are into first gen's know that Chevy never officially made a convertible Z28. Chevrolet did build one for Pete Estes (Chevy management), but it was never meant for public consumption.

Anyway, this guy set about to build another one and did so to such a degree of authenticity it is scary. Part numbers, correct castings, careful machining to prevent destroying original stampings, date codes and sequencing, options, etc. He even had paperwork created and then "properly" weathered to further substantiate the car. It's a great article, a beautiful car and really drives the point home about doing your homework with old car if authenticity is what your are after. If this car was a hardtop Z28 or some other lesser model, I don't know if you would be able to prove it was a fake and that's really unsettling.

Where is the line where the aftermarket has gone too far and instead of helping the hobby, actually diminishes it?

Either way its a beautiful car as long as it is never passed on as something more than what it really is, a really expensive dream car.

Chris

Knipps · 07-03-2008, 06:31 PM

just got that one yesterday

WildBillyT · 07-04-2008, 11:07 AM

He is on Camaros.net. I think his name is "Wagonman".

The thing is that it takes a lot of money to make an even remotely passable clone. As good as some of the repro stuff is, it can still be obvious to even a slightly trained eye that it's not real.

1QWIKBIRD · 07-04-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

He is on Camaros.net. I think his name is "Wagonman".

The thing is that it takes a lot of money to make an even remotely passable clone. As good as some of the repro stuff is, it can still be obvious to even a slightly trained eye that it's not real.

That's a good thing. I watch all the auctions on Speed and I see these cars trading at stupid $$$$ and wonder is it live or is it memorex? I'd hate to be the guy getting burned after dropping huge coin on a fake.

Chris

SteveR · 07-05-2008, 09:30 PM

Is there a way to check authenticity using the VIN for a Camaro like how Pontiac has that service?

BonzoHansen · 07-05-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveR

Is there a way to check authenticity using the VIN for a Camaro like how Pontiac has that service?

No. Well, I think 77 up you can.

SteveR · 07-06-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

No. Well, I think 77 up you can.

Are they copying the tags too? Thats the only way you can really try and trick someone.

WildBillyT · 07-07-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveR

Are they copying the tags too? Thats the only way you can really try and trick someone.

Yes. Vin and trim tags.

1QWIKBIRD · 07-08-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Yes. Vin and trim tags.

And I think I saw somewhere that you can buy the correct rivets to reattach the VIN and Trim tags?? The body is stamped on various locations with the VIN, but few are easily accessible on an assembled car. When I had my 70 Nova in pieces I found the VIN on the passenger side firewall behind the heater/blower motor box, and also in the gutter of the trunk weather stripping, but on a finished car those would near impossible to verify. I took pics of mine, just because I thought it was interesting.

Its a shame because it only weakens the market for the truly rare cars.

Chris

BigAls87Z28 · 07-10-2008, 10:36 AM

Same could be said about the reproduction first gens made in China that could flood the market with "new" first gens.

BonzoHansen · 07-10-2008, 11:06 AM

Flood is probably not the right term. The sheer cost of getting a dynocorn body on the road (lot of labor to make it right too) will likely keep it to more of a trickle. A pro build with all new parts is $100k+

There are many more phony vin/cowl tag/documents out there.

WildBillyT · 07-10-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Flood is probably not the right term. The sheer cost of getting a dynocorn body on the road (lot of labor to make it right too) will likely keep it to more of a trickle. A pro build with all new parts is $100k+

There are many more phony vin/cowl tag/documents out there.

From what I have heard, the new bodies are selling like ****. They need way too much finish work to get right since repro parts don't fight right on the repro body.

BonzoHansen · 07-10-2008, 11:50 AM

Yeah, that is what I was alluding too. The cost to make one work is rather high. You wouldn't see me doing it, lol.

WildBillyT · 07-10-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Yeah, that is what I was alluding too. The cost to make one work is rather high. You wouldn't see me doing it, lol.

I had considered it, to the point where I was getting shipping quotes and titling details. As it turns out getting my ****box fixed is still cheaper and I get to keep my partial vins.

SteveR · 07-12-2008, 12:55 AM

I didn't hear about this China thing, what is it? Just repro parts, or whole cars? I know that GM sold off a lot of its tool & dye stuff to other countries, like the old Nova stuff to Mexico and the '57 Chevy stuff to Cuba. Is this all legit stuff with the F-Bodies, or just knock-offs?

BonzoHansen · 07-12-2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveR

I didn't hear about this China thing, what is it? Just repro parts, or whole cars? I know that GM sold off a lot of its tool & dye stuff to other countries, like the old Nova stuff to Mexico and the '57 Chevy stuff to Cuba. Is this all legit stuff with the F-Bodies, or just knock-offs?

Dynacorn. GM does not make camaro sheet metal anymore

JL8Jeff · 07-12-2008, 10:57 AM

Trim tags, VIN tags, protect-o-plates, warranty books, buildsheets are all being replicated today. Some very, very well and others not so well. So you really have to be extremely careful. A good number of cars at auction are questionable cars and there have been some incidents because of it. You need to do your homework and take your time investigating a car. Never fall for the old "I have a guy coming in an hour" ploy to force you to make a hasty decision.

SteveR · 07-12-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Dynacorn. GM does not make camaro sheet metal anymore

Yea, I wasn't sure if GM sold the molds to someone and they were authentic repros, or if China made there own molds and they're not 100% accurate.

98CamaroSS · 08-12-2008, 10:56 PM

On a car like that which is one of one and well known there's no chance of passing the replica as real. However there are many others which are not so well known or documented which are passed off as real. IMO clones suck, but you'll never stop them. Did you know that there's actually more 67-Corvettes with the 427 now then were made by GM in 1967?

SteveR · 08-13-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfgang427

On a car like that which is one of one and well known there's no chance of passing the replica as real. However there are many others which are not so well known or documented which are passed off as real. IMO clones suck, but you'll never stop them. Did you know that there's actually more 67-Corvettes with the 427 now then were made by GM in 1967?

Yep, and there are more 60s and early 70s GTOs out there than Pontiac made.

SteveR · 08-13-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Yes. Vin and trim tags.

I was thinking about this, the federal law states that in order to swap a VIN tag you have to get approval from the state and have a state trooper there to watch you do it. How do they get around the law? Just do it anyway? Theres no way to do it legally since the VIN doesnt match the car its going on to and both the VIN plate and the trim tags are fakes.

EchoMirage · 08-16-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveR

I was thinking about this, the federal law states that in order to swap a VIN tag you have to get approval from the state and have a state trooper there to watch you do it. How do they get around the law? Just do it anyway? Theres no way to do it legally since the VIN doesnt match the car its going on to and both the VIN plate and the trim tags are fakes.

there is a way. i knew a body shop guy a few years back who did it with a mustang. took either a plain gt or 6cyl. and made it into a shelby. every single nut and bolt, every single clip, stitch, and thread has to be exactly identical to the original. i dont know if it available for every car, but it was with a shelby. it has to be authenticated, researched, all sorts of things. im sure it has to be either witnessed, or completely torn down, verified, and built up again.

WildBillyT · 08-17-2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EchoMirage

there is a way. i knew a body shop guy a few years back who did it with a mustang. took either a plain gt or 6cyl. and made it into a shelby. every single nut and bolt, every single clip, stitch, and thread has to be exactly identical to the original. i dont know if it available for every car, but it was with a shelby. it has to be authenticated, researched, all sorts of things. im sure it has to be either witnessed, or completely torn down, verified, and built up again.

You can buy legit Shelby vins and attach it to your car.

CHRIS67 · 08-21-2008, 01:19 PM

Or you can just point, click, and have one shipped to you. In either coupe or convertable.

http://www.officialbaldwinmotion.com/home.htm