Getting my new 406 SBC installed, running, and driving - Page 11 - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

sweetbmxrider · 01-19-2021, 12:16 PM

Could mount the switch to catch the gas pedal inside the car as well

IROCZman15 · 01-20-2021, 10:33 PM

that is very true, that would be hidden for sure. good thinking!

I didn't get home today till 9:15pm, so I missed the Atco zoom meeting, but I see that jim said it was postponed. Cool

-when I did get home it was awesome to see a UPS package arrived with my new gearset from Moser/US Gear. It was scheduled to arrive tomorrow, but I am relieved that Moser had a set in stock. Amazon gave me a $50 gift card for their error,. The set I got from Moser is not ISO-treated, and that is fine; my current 3.55 gears are also not treated.

Anyways, If I get some time Friday I plan to remove the rear from the car and hopefully get the new 3.91 gearset installed on Sunday.

I am excite!

IROCZman15 · 01-22-2021, 08:11 PM

Had a few hours this afternoon to remove the rear from the car. All went just fine, no issues except the driveshaft's u-joint nuts were more stubborn than they needed to be; locktite red I used last time. everything else came out/apart real easy.

That white suds/liquid on the internals is just spray-degreaser that looks weird on camera

Hoping to do the ring/pinion removal and install on sunday afternoon. It will be my first time.

LTb1ow · 01-23-2021, 12:49 PM

Remember the ring gear bolts are reverse thread AFAIK

IROCZman15 · 01-24-2021, 08:26 PM

I thought they would be also, my old 3.73 richmond gears on my old 10 bolt were reverse thread. These were not though.

Today I got pretty far, and I think I am super close to being able to button up the housing and get it back under the car.

existing 3.55 gearset removal:

3.91 install:

Starting with the pinion's rotational drag, I have it set somewhere between the 14-18 inch pounds range. not break away torque, but rotational. this is what moser and US gears calls for.

see video (sorry, hard to film and turn at the same time) the photo below was not taken at desired/proper drag, but its the only photo I had that was not blurry. video is kinda better...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54_jH_rWrfg

reused the pinion races and pinion bearings. Moser said i could and should do this since my 3.55 gearset was so new and only had 6,000 miles on it since March 2018. If something went wrong, I had new bearings to use, but all went well and the new bearings are in a box still. I used a 3shim combination to get a total of 0.0425" on top of the solid pinion spacer. I did put in a new pinion seal.

Used the existing carrier bearings and races also. Adjusted the sim packs on each side, and the carrier is SNUG in the housing. Can not be pulled out by hand, need a pry bar to gently coax it out. Main caps are torqued down, but not lock-tited yet just in case anyone sees something that I need to adjust.

Backlash is right around 0.0090 and 0.010. This is in spec, but the only thing I notice is a "knock/thunk" from the teeth contacting eachother. I am ASSUMING this is normal on a bone-dry set of new gears. You can hear the noise in the video. Is this normal for a dry gearset?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oByzPG-Sb24

desired pattern chart:

current COAST tooth pattern:

current DRIVE tooth pattern:

It took me about 4 times taking the carrier out and re-shimming it to get the current backlash and contact pattern. Might have initially used too much yellow paste, as it got everywhere so I had to do a cleanup of stuff and re-try it.

So, thats where I am at. if the pattern is as good as it needs to be, GREAT. and, if that clunk noise while checking backlash is normal for a new set of unlubricated gears, then that is also good.

IROCZman15 · 01-26-2021, 08:28 PM

Pretty much almost finished...

Got everything buttoned up after making one small shim adjustment to the pinion's solid spacer. It was just a bit too tight, now it is perfect for rotational drag. Put the housing cover on, added the recommended NON-SYNTHETIC Lucas 80-90 gear oil and tightened up the main cap support bolts in the cover. Hung the axle back in the car and got everything back into place.
- I am seriously debating removing the emergency/parking brake cables and assembly from the rear discs. I never use the brake, and they are always a pain in the butt when I go to get the calipers mounted. Always a hassle. Might remove them and leave the handle inside the car (for aesthetics).

Did a very brief test after bolting on the wheels and bleeding the brakes. This was NOT to break the rear in, but just to make sure I didn't hear or see any odd noises from the rear, driveshaft, brakes, or anything.

Short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_ibYF7_vYo

I will get the car out soon to do a road test and break in the gears according to what Moser and US Gear recommends:

Then I will get under the car, wipe everything down clean, lube the suspension, and check the torque on all the bolts/fasteners. i also want to check/adjust my driveline angle too. That should do it!

wretched73 · 01-26-2021, 09:29 PM

Looks great, I'm anxious to find out how you like the new gear ratio. Too bad NJ just dumped a god awful amount of salt on the roads

IROCZman15 · 02-03-2021, 05:43 PM

I got smart/lucky a few days ago when I decided to do the break-in and road test of the new gearset, because now after this massive snow storm, it is really unlikely that I will have the car out for a few weeks. Here in my hometown we got 28-30" of snowfall. WILD

Anyway, when I did the road test I could definitively tell that the acceleration was better. It gave me a big smile when I did a few short "pulls" after completing the break in session. This gear swap was a great idea. I will patiently wait until Island opens in April to get a true real-world timeslip to measure the actual improvement in acceleration.

IROCZman15 · 02-14-2021, 08:26 PM

Took the car out for a few miles on Friday despite the salt on the roads. Wanted to check a few things over and I knew I would be fully cleaning the underside this weekend anyways. Got on the throttle a few times and I am very happy with how much better the acceleration is.

Spent a good amount of time making sure my driveline angles were all good and the pinion angle also. I am happy with it. Used the Tremec app and the iphone angle finder apps because that magnetic angel-finder from home depot just wasn't precise enough for me. I wanted the transmission to point downward a little bit more and since it is not the time to build a custom dropped trans cross-member, I built some shims to put in-between the body and the cross-member out of 1/8" aluminum plate. This gave me the downward angle I was looking for, for now. . Also swapped in a 45 tooth speedometer drive gear so that the speedometer reads correctly now with the 3.91 rear ratio.

those numbers above wont make sense to you unless you use the app

these might make more sense though.. but please note, these photos were taken (and posted) not in order. this is just showing what my figured I was working with were at the time.

Hit every polyurethane and roto-joint with the clear marine grade grease. Used regular grease on all the steering components. I always underestimate how messy that clear grease gets. After everything else was done underneath I gave the underside a wipe down and got everything cleaned. Checked over many nuts and bolts, and as it sits, everything underneath the car is pretty much complete and ready to drive for the year.

thats it for now, if anything under the car grabs your attention (good or bad), just shout it out to me. hold all comments about the exhaust, that will be next winters project.

The_Bishop · 02-16-2021, 04:40 PM

Those double-adjustable rear control arms, when you put them together did you grease or anti-seize the threads? If you do any amount of wet weather driving it's a fair bet that those will rust up, happened to me.

Blackbirdws6 · 02-16-2021, 07:00 PM

So clean. Very nice!

IROCZman15 · 02-16-2021, 08:20 PM

Bishop, yup I always use the silver anti-sieze on the chassis parts. I paint the threads and then get everything adjusted. I then wipe off the excess with a rag and after that then I hit the aluminum with some 0 grade steel wool to get them clean looking. As I am sure you are aware, the anti-sieze is a magnet for debris, so the less excess of it exposed, the less gunk will live up in the exposed threads. However, if you meant when i initially installed them several years ago, I know I used some antisieze, but I am not sure that the entire length of the threads that are "encapsulated" int he tube were liberally coated. Do you mean that moisture got into the tube part of the bar and caused rust to the threads inside the tube?

Thanks Brian. it will get dirty soon, in fact I took it out for a few miles today to check over the adjustments and for any driveline noises and vibrations. none existed, but I was only able to get up to about 60 mph on the roads today. Lots of snow melt puddles in the road that I could not avoid, so I splashed some of the underside up already. Gave the car a much needed wash today, which it hasn't been washed since November. With everything now good underneath, I will go along and use a paint-marker on the chassis adjustments and some of the underside bolts.

I also changed out the magnefine in-line magnetic transmission filter too, but did not cut open the old one yet. The fluid that dripped out from it was very clean and cherry red. nice. I am ready for driving season, having to wait stinks. Still about 1.5 months before island is open. bummer

IROCZman15 · 03-14-2021, 06:42 PM

had the car out a few times over the past few weeks, but today I did a bit of a longer drive and put 30 miles on it to check some things in the tune and datalog. Also, finally got the car up to "higher speeds" and there is no noticeable driveline vibration or noise with speeds in excess of 100 mph, so I think the gear project is a success. The car does pull well in all gears now when compared to how it was with the 3.55 gears.

Planning on doing the electric vacuum pump setup for the brake booster. Then I can run my fixed orifice PVC valve to the big vacuum opening on the sniper and cleanup the hoses back there. I keep in touch with a few other car buddies and some racers/street guys who do recommend an electric vacuum pump. There are a few complete kits I've seen, and a few options where I could buy the pump, buy the relay, and buy the pressure switch.

One of the better pump options that is more affordable is the GM pump that came on new gen Impalas and malibus. GM part # UP28. I have found them as low as $60 online, but here is a link to an AC Delco version of the pump. https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-20804...Y05ZQ5759P4CVB I would wire up a relay so the pump would turn on when the engine is on (not key on), and I would also want the setup that has an in-line sensor which will turn the pump(relay) on/off when the vacuum is within the proper range. Generally this vacuum range is 18-22", . I have read mixed reviews about various sensors, and some sensors are not adjustable, while some are, but later become faulty? Here is what I am talking about: https://www.amazon.com/Superior-K058...ct_top?ie=UTF8 or this one (yes it says psi, but those psi numbers are in range for inches of mercury vacuum) https://www.radwell.com/Shop?source=...gleId=39137025

here are a few pumps, and also a few kits. Everything has most good reviews and some bad reviews. The top of my budget for this project is $250 done and done. The Leeds $400 pump setup is just too far out of my budget despite how people seem to love it.

- https://www.speedwaymotors.com/The-R...ump,50355.html

- https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performa...63016/10002/-1

- https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performa...2/-1#reviewTab

- https://www.ebay.com/itm/39302794007...xoCnSwQAvD_BwE

- https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-20804...Y05ZQ5759P4CVB

- https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-20939..._t2_B075JYWCBJ

- https://www.amazon.com/Auxiliary-Ele...ct_top?ie=UTF8

- https://www.amazon.com/Booster-Vacuu...ct_top?ie=UTF8

- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-760152

aside from that, with Island opening up in a few weeks, I will start looking to get the tune stuff worked out. The car feels a few tenths quicker and that is with these street tires spinning on cold roads.

The_Bishop · 03-15-2021, 10:36 AM

You might want to factor in some type of vacuum reservoir, as well.

IROCZman15 · 03-15-2021, 07:00 PM

I have thought about that for a while too. It was my first thought last year when I realized I needed more vac for the brake booster, to run a reservoir can. Old school style.

I think I want to try the vac pump on its own first. Spent lots of time reading about it and most people have success with just the pump. Some have used the pump along with a reservoir too. At this point, I am starting to watch how much weight and items I continue to add to the car and where I put them. Also, adding a can means more connection points, fittings and potential leak points. I can easily add the can later on if needed, but at this point, I might put it as "plan B". I do appreciate your advice. Thanks !

sweetbmxrider · 03-16-2021, 06:37 AM

Lt1s have a plastic one stock iirc.

The_Bishop · 03-16-2021, 08:37 AM

The main reason I mentioned adding the can is that the brake booster, when depressed, might need more vacuum than the pump can provide in a 'surge' which may result in an odd brake feel or worse yet, bad brake performance in the case of a sudden/panic stop. The reservoir should be a nearly inconsequential amount of weight for the benefit derived, and while it does add two more connection points to the system I'd think that would be a non-issue with the appropriate care in making those connections and clamping them.

IROCZman15 · 03-16-2021, 02:26 PM

Yea, the more I think about what you guys are saying the more I agree. I used to have the oem plastic vacuum ball but I sold that off during one of my last parts sell-offs online. Damn. Do you think that small vacuum ball would be good enough for volume ? I was initially thinking of one of those bigger metal tanks and trying to hide that under the car would be more of a challenge compared to that vacuum ball. Thoughts ?

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.carid.com/dorman/vacuum-...mpn-47077.html

sweetbmxrider · 03-16-2021, 03:18 PM

https://m.plusmore.com/hvac/hvac_con...ntiac/Firebird

Mounted under passenger frame area near horns on 4th gen. This isn’t exactly oem but similar.

LTb1ow · 03-16-2021, 06:35 PM

All of those are for minimal flow stuff, IE HVAC valves, 4x4 etc...

If you are planning to store vac for brake use, I doubt that tiny line will flow anything worth a damn.

sweetbmxrider · 03-16-2021, 06:46 PM

True, it does specify hvac.

IROCZman15 · 03-16-2021, 08:55 PM

good point!

I did some quick eyeball measuring and my brain is starting to formulate a plan. I think that I can install a normal sized metal vac can under the drivers side front "battery tray" area, ahead of the wheel well. most vac cans are about 5"x7" and I would want a little bit of room on each side of it. https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/63010/10002/-1
Since this was originally the area I was going to mount the electric vac pump in, along with the switch, I will then have to move the vacuum pump over to the area underneath the battery tray on the passenger side. Directly above this is where I actually have the 12V power distribution block and my relays for my cooling fans. So, I could put my vac pump relay next to these relays, get my 12 volt power from the nearby distribution block, and run the ground wire directly over to my huge grounding through-bolt in the front frame which is also tied to the block and to the battery. However, i would then have to run the relay's signal wire back to the dash (fuse panel) so that the pump only runs when the key/engine is on. Nothing else up front by the headlight bar that I could tap into for a key-on signal. Oh well. The its simply a matter of neatly running the hoses and the in-line switch.

Was hoping to get to this project before Island opens up on April 3rd, but its not a necessity. I can absolutely make some passes with the car as it sits now, so whenever I get this vac pump system in, that will be ok.

wretched73 · 03-16-2021, 09:51 PM

Honest question, Can you add just the can? Will the can store vacuum that your engine naturally makes?

Then you don't have to put in the pump

IROCZman15 · 03-17-2021, 08:20 PM

I think so. This was a thought early on. I dont know why I so quickly dismissed the idea actually. I think once I started doing some research on the topic I kept seeing the use of a vacuum pump and thought, well, that sounds like a better option. The can is cheap enough and is a simple install. I think I will definitely have an improvement with using a can, and if the power brake vacuum is still not up to my liking, I can just order a pump, switch, and relay and add it to the system in conjunction with the can. I think I am going to do this actually. I don't see any negative reasons why I shouldn't. Probably a $40 can like the Jegs one in black or wrinkle finish. 10 feet of rubber line. Cool!

The_Bishop · 03-18-2021, 04:14 PM

Well, it all depends on how much vacuum the engine makes. If the booster needs 12"hg and the engine only makes 10" hg, you're still going to have issues. The reservoir can't 'make' vacuum. The pump will ensure you have enough vacuum to operate the brakes and the HVAC stuff, provided it's still in the car.