Want to build a First Gen - Need Resources - Page 2 - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

KevinW · 03-28-2016, 06:35 PM

So 1st gen prices started really going nuts when Barrett Jackson auctions started being televised. Now everyone thinks they have a gold mine. But since the number of project cars has decreased, so finding a good one for a decent price is a real challenge. The equation of buying a car mostly done versus a "start from scratch car" is all about the wallet and how much work can you do yourself. As well as how long to you want to wait for a done car.

I too am part of the problem

I have had a 69 shell for 34 years and even though there is no rust, there is still a lot of welding work to be done. But I would not let it go for less than $10K at this point. Maybe my widow will sell it cheaper

Take a look at the decent build shows (Bitching rides comes to mind, but there are a few more with less scripting). The amount of work these shops do at regular rates, must be in the $50K to $90K for a done car. Lots of hours spent! All those cars must be way underwater! We see a lot of them at BJ (Announcer voice) "over $100,000 spent on the resto, but car goes for $50,000", huh??? Somebody is loosing money big time, or outright lying.

So it is all up to you to decide which route you want to go and educate yourself on what is out there. If you want a done car, start looking at the clones. Hopefully you can find one in your budget with a crappy engine and trans to knock the price down.

BonzoHansen · 03-28-2016, 08:22 PM

Also don't discount running, workable car just because of the drive train. Unless you plan on blowing it out and doing everything at once. If you are going in stages maybe you start with suspension, etc. and keep it street worthy. Cars in motion tend to stay in motion. Cars that sit tend to sit. I have an example of both. I may not be at owning a shell for 34 years but i'm closer to that then I'd like to admit. Meanwhile the red car is usually ready to go.

qwikz28 · 03-28-2016, 09:53 PM

I see. Great advice. Thank you guys.

I won't discount any 69 Coupe if the sheetmetal is good. I would be elated to find a running car that I could drive around right away and would delay cutting up my fourth gen. I'll start responding to some ads and checking some out in person to see what each price point will get me.

As for the budget, the number I have in mind is really for the finished product - $50k. I wouldn't be able to put it all down at once so if I found a completed car, it would need to be around $30k-$35k to accommodate for the chassis and interior work. I think having the drivetrain already makes that number attainable. Or perhaps that is more than I'll need. I don't know how to make a budget because I don't know what the build will entail.

KevinW · 03-29-2016, 07:31 AM

OK, now that we have you scared, but with an open mind

time for specifics!

First you need to look at the title and compare them to the VINS (yes, pural).

Read this page: http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml (CRG is a wonderful resource!) take pictures of dash VIN and cowl VIN. If car is apart, you might even be able to see the firewall VIN. Plant letter and last 6 digits have to match. It is common for 1st gens to have rust in the dash area and the sheet metal replace, so you have to inspect the dash vin tag area and see how it is attached. Take pics of the front and back as much as you can and post for review. We do it all the time in http://www.camaros.net/forums/15-tag-team/

Next, Metal! So if the car has finished paint or primer, take a Rockauto refrig magnet and check: around rear wheels, lower corners of door opening and door, lower front and rear of fenders and rockers. Basically anywhere you cannot see the backside of a panel.

If the shell has had panel replacement, you need to check fit and finish. Is it on straight? gaps look proper? Look behind panel and where is was welded on. Correct welding is to drill holes, weld on primer, the plug fill the holes with MIG, then grind smooth. If, you see sloppy weld work, it will be an indication of other poor work done on car.

Lots of good examples of weld work here: http://www.camaros.net/forums/133-build-projects/

Don't despair too much if you see sloppy work, most can be fixed, but you don't want to pay extra for sub standard work!

Additional info on body issues: http://www.camaros.net/forums/12-body-shop/

You will see people take on rusty projects, with just the rust is holding it together, After they take it apart, just a few good panels are left. Then using a body jig (sold separately!), the start with the floor and build a brand new Camaro from the floors up. Brave souls!

Lots of other forums to browse! http://www.camaros.net/forums/

BonzoHansen · 03-29-2016, 07:58 AM

$50k is pretty easy to burn, especially if that includes the purchase of the car. Make a high level plan and budget now. You can drop $25k on suspension/brakes/wheels/tires if you look at the DSEs of the world.

sweetbmxrider · 03-29-2016, 09:19 AM

http://delaware.craigslist.org/cto/5504666843.html

Tough to tell much but could have decent quarters, prob needs floor pans. Decent candidate....

BonzoHansen · 03-29-2016, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

http://delaware.craigslist.org/cto/5504666843.html

Tough to tell much but could have decent quarters, prob needs floor pans. Decent candidate....

and an octagon steering wheel.

KevinW · 03-29-2016, 10:08 AM

Never saw the steering wheel before, groovy!

Looks like originally Daytona yellow, (white?) vinyl top, white standard interior, built after Dec 68 (curved headrests), manual 4 drum brakes, replaced drivers fender, original pass fender with lower section removed for a patch panel, Z-21 style trim (probably X11 on trim tag), aftermarket short water pump (wrong one!), no console, needs new inst cluster.

I agree, not a bad candidate at all! a fairly honest car and price. posted 6 days ago, I bet it will be sold soon!

sweetbmxrider · 03-30-2016, 04:12 PM

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5499050222.html

Not many pics to go by. Prob a bit high for the price. What do you think Kevin?

KevinW · 03-30-2016, 08:10 PM

I anyone wants to know how NOT to take pics for an ad, that was a great example!

The only thing I could make out is a factory looking power brake setup.

qwikz28 · 03-30-2016, 10:17 PM

With the way people brag about having glass in their ads, you would think its the most expensive part of building the car.

By the way, I'm very thankful for the help, guys. Also for when the time comes and I'm ready to buy, I'll be reaching out for help again.

sweetbmxrider · 03-31-2016, 07:24 AM

So I'm jumping the gun here? Got it

qwikz28 · 03-31-2016, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

So I'm jumping the gun here? Got it

Oh definitely, but its helpful

sweetbmxrider · 03-31-2016, 10:28 AM

I've been fantasizing about something similar. Be it a camaro, bird, gto, etc so I frequent craigslist and dream

qwikz28 · 03-31-2016, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

I've been fantasizing about something similar. Be it a camaro, bird, gto, etc so I frequent craigslist and dream

Every time I see a 4th gen being sold for essentially scrap prices, I realize how silly it is that I am putting money into a fun car that isn't a classic. I started putting money aside a few months ago when I had the idea and will start looking seriously for a car as soon as the wife and I move out of our apartment.

BonzoHansen · 03-31-2016, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwikz28

Every time I see a 4th gen being sold for essentially scrap prices, I realize how silly it is that I am putting money into a fun car that isn't a classic. I started putting money aside a few months ago when I had the idea and will start looking seriously for a car as soon as the wife and I move out of our apartment.

Mark Steilow, builder of uber-pro-touring 69 camaros (and a 67) and 5th gen z28 head suspension engineer was once asked why he doesn't build a second gen, or a nova, or something else. His reply was it costs the same about of money to build each of them give or take buying the initial car, but the 69 has a higher resale value.

and it's why i wont buy forgelines for my 77.

qwikz28 · 03-31-2016, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Mark Steilow, builder of uber-pro-touring 69 camaros (and a 67) and 5th gen z28 head suspension engineer was once asked why he doesn't build a second gen, or a nova, or something else. His reply was it costs the same about of money to build each of them give or take buying the initial car, but the 69 has a higher resale value.

and it's why i wont buy forgelines for my 77.

That's why its important for me to have a car with a VIN and its why I want to get one as soon as I can - before the prices go even higher than they already have.

WildBillyT · 03-31-2016, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwikz28

That's why its important for me to have a car with a VIN and its why I want to get one as soon as I can - before the prices go even higher than they already have.

Prices overall have fallen in the past 10 years or so. Flat in the last 5.

I don't think you need to rush.

qwikz28 · 03-31-2016, 07:32 PM

I didn't know that, Bill. I keep hearing that the prices are just going up but that makes me feel better.

I've been reading through build threads on Team Camaro. A lot of good stuff in the build threads.

Quick question: Is it true that these cars rattle a lot? If so, any way to tighten the car up and make it more solid?

KevinW · 04-01-2016, 07:39 AM

The only thing that rattles in my 69 is the top (when up) and the exhaust a little because I have NO clearance by the trans support

and I have solid subframe bushings! If you get a coupe and put connectors in and sound deaden it, you will not have issues. Of course, I assume all bolts will be tight.

qwikz28 · 04-03-2016, 09:09 PM

I found a great build thread on pro-touring. Full of great info: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/6...rojekt-1sickT8)

KevinW · 04-04-2016, 07:35 AM

Yup, 1st gens always start with body work and welding

qwikz28 · 04-04-2016, 09:27 AM

The guy really made something out of nothing. Got it running with minimal funds and then tweaked from there based on the feel on an autocross course. Makes a lot of sense how he did it.

sweetbmxrider · 04-06-2016, 07:44 AM

That was a great read

qwikz28 · 03-29-2018, 04:14 PM

Is this a steal or am I missing something? https://longisland.craigslist.org/ct...544298385.html

Nevermind the completely incorrect pictures in the listing, it's obviously a pickup of some sort. This is cheap enough for me to buy with my side savings and hide from the wife until I can save more money to get a nice subframe package for it.