vehicle prep and upgrades PRIOR to next years 500hp sbc with N20 engine swap

[deadtrend1]

What experts did you talk to? Thats one of the bolts that hold the posi unit together...

A new 12 bolt is not even close to 4500 dollars..

[IROCZman15]

Originally Posted by deadtrend1

What experts did you talk to? Thats one of the bolts that hold the posi unit together...

A new 12 bolt is not even close to 4500 dollars..

several, including a guy on thirdgen.org who has been building rear ends for three decades.
if you know a way to pull up a photo or exploded diagram view of said rear posi unit, please share. I'd love to know what my fate may be. this bolt may have broken off a long time ago or just recently. last time I had the cover off and changed rear fluid was about 1.5 years ago.


as per prices on the 12 bolt, that is kinda what I have been coming up with when doing pretend orders on moser, strange, and currie websites. (that price includes the $600 driveshaft i will NEED to match the rear, from dennys driveshafts) I also looked on hawks, and may give JS josh a call. I do want a 12 bolt and not a 9".

I would really like to keep my current rear brake package becasue it works well, and I already own it so why buy another.
it is the exact kit at this link: http://flynbye.com/catalog/i11.html
BUT WITH THESE BACKING PLATES: http://flynbye.com/catalog/i182.html
(those backing plates were needed because i went from drum to disc)

from researching moser, currie, strange's websites, they obviously wouldn't use those backing plates, but how would I go about ordering/researching how to make this brake package work.

the reason I ask is when I go to Moser's site,
http://www.moserengineering.com/12-b...d-package.item
click "rear end packages" in the store, "12 bolt built to order", .. in brake packages, would i just click "using stock brakes" ? and then use my backing plates? will this work with their axle flanges and bolt-in axles (non C-clip) ? I have emailed them twice but no response so I may have to call. in reality, this is the only thing holding me up from piecing together an order.... (and finances). I would really hate to not reuse my perfectly fine working brake package. see below and/or website

the options I chose on this page were
http://www.moserengineering.com/12-b...d-package.item
- Kendall LS additave
- 3 liters Motul fluid
- residentail lift gate
- bolt in axles
- 82-92 camaro *** see here, right here !!!! "can not use stock brakes" !!!!!
- 33 spline
- Trutrack 33 spline
- 3.55 ratio
- 1350 series pinion yoke
- aluminum girdle
- 5 x 4.75 bolt pattern
- sealed bearing
- 12 x 1.5 " studs
- no ABS
- using stock drum brakes **which is what my backing plates currently are for ** but wont work ...
- sway bar mounts and adjustable LCA mounts (their site will only let me pick one of thesee?!?)
- semi-gloss black powdercoating
$3,300.75


Driveshaft:
1350 series nitrous ready
http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c30_...7_to_2002.html

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by deadtrend1

What experts did you talk to? Thats one of the bolts that hold the posi unit together...

A new 12 bolt is not even close to 4500 dollars..

Nailed it.




Factory 26 spline GM Auburn posi screw.

[IROCZman15]

ok, awesome, thank you guys. the day i first found it i knew it was obviously not a ring gear bolt or a main cap bolt as I could physically see them. that led my thought process into t inking it was something inside the diff.. and not being an expert i asked around. no worries though, I am glad to now know what it is and where it came from.

looks like there are 5 of them total. i'm missing one. certainly not good at all, but not an immediate death sentence for the whole rear.. would you agree? might have to go a little easier on the burnouts and launches for a while while I save up money for a 12 bolt. thoughts opinions ?

[BonzoHansen]

i wouldn't run it. so now the other bolts are more stressed and one already broke on its own.

[LTb1ow]

Why are you fixed on the 12 bolt?

S60 is another option

[IROCZman15]

i did look at combinations of the strange S60 and the for 9" and fabricated rear ends as well. I guess I am not fixed on the 12 bolt 100% but I have done some resaerch and reading on Thirdgen.org and people seem to have success with it on setups with the power level I plan on being at

I wish I had the $4,000 is that it would cost to just buy or have one built right now, but I donnt...so either I sideline the car until I can afford it, or I put the 10 bolt back in and drive normally without launches or burnouts etc

as mentioned, the brake setup is really my only dilemma


did a tiny bit more work on the fuel system this morning, plugged in the pumps etup and new bulkhead wiring to the existing oem fuel pump connector and connected the battery. the pump primed. waited 5 mins, did it again. that was a nice moemnt, because it means that I did the in tank wiring correctly, 9which involved removing wiring and pins from oem connectors and putting them into new ones from racetronix), and the bulkhead wiring is correct.


going to try to finish up the braided lines and fittings tomorrow daytime, and then runt the main wiring harness from the alternator, under the car, to the tank . then get some fuel and test the pump

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by LTb1ow

Why are you fixed on the 12 bolt?

S60 is another option

there is a rear I never see in a car designed to turn corners.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by IROCZman15

i did look at combinations of the strange S60 and the for 9" and fabricated rear ends as well. I guess I am not fixed on the 12 bolt 100% but I have done some resaerch and reading on Thirdgen.org and people seem to have success with it on setups with the power level I plan on being at

I wish I had the $4,000 is that it would cost to just buy or have one built right now, but I donnt...so either I sideline the car until I can afford it, or I put the 10 bolt back in and drive normally without launches or burnouts etc

short term you could buy a new center unit.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

there is a rear I never see in a car designed to turn corners.

Learn something new every day

[wretched73]

Check out the 9" rears sold by quick performance

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by LTb1ow

Learn something new every day

i can only surmise it has to do with size & weight (and HP loss?). I assume the extra shock load that you see in drag racing warrants that kind of setup, something cars in other forms of racing problaby don't typically see. Just a guess on my part.

[Featherburner]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

i can only surmise it has to do with size & weight (and HP loss?). I assume the extra shock load that you see in drag racing warrants that kind of setup, something cars in other forms of racing problaby don't typically see. Just a guess on my part.

10-15 pounds heavier than a 9" and "eats" less HP than a 9" due to 9" pinion location.

[IROCZman15]

FUEL SYSTEM IS COMPLETE AND WORKING PROPERLY.

Yesterday I finished up the lines and connections at the tank bulkhead. cut the vent tube and the "honk" valve metal lines off and ran new fuel rated rubber lines from the tank. I also wired in the wiring harness that I got from racetronix already prebuilt. It gets power from the alternator, so the voltage will be above 14volts to feed the pump. the wiring was a little long so I had to loop it onto itself back by the tank. it came with the built in relay, connectors, and chassis ground terminal. The body-mount clamps I got fit the -6 return line perfectly, so that is hard mounted along the chassis and underbody. I have some billet clamps that attach the -6 line to the -8 feed line along the path too, and then the wiring, vent tube line, and the brake line to the rear axle are all zip tied together. The filter is large, so I was limited on areas to mount it, but I found a good enough spot for it.


When it was all said and done I connected the battery and tested for voltage. I put the keyON and heard the pump prime. it did. I then removed the coil wire from the distributer and cranked the engine a few times to build fuel pressure in the line and check for leaks. no leaks. Figured, what the heck and reconnected the ignition. after a bout only 2 seconds, the engine started up and ran. let it run at idle for about 10 seconds and shut it all off. went underneath with a dry papertowel and checked for leaks. no leaks. let everything sit for about 15 mins and cranked it over again. ran for 10 seconds at idle and turned it off. no leaks. as was suggested to me on TGOi supported the underside of the engine for balance/safety.


so hopefuly that totaly wraps it up for the fuel system portion of this winter's project
I'll now reassemble the rear end after I put in the new longer wheel studs. I hear what you guys are saying about buying a new posi unit, but I really would like to NOT put any more $ into this 177,000 mile rear axle assemble. Those hundreds of doallrs would be way better off going towards the new rear end. I'll just not hammer on the car until I have the axle here or being built.

still completely unsure about what path I will go with rearends, and what to do about this brake setup.

[sweetbmxrider]

Nice progress dude

[IROCZman15]

so since the last update I have gotten the car completely back together and back on the road

I left the rear end "as-is" with the hopes that it can survive through most/all of 2018 while saving up for a new purpose built rear (as earlier discussed above by us all). so, the exhaust, heat shields, rear axle, brakes, suspension components, lines, etc are all done. I installed new slightly longer wheel studs in the axles because I wanted a few more turns of thread engagement, and now I feel better having about 7.5 turns of thread engagement when bolting on my rear wheels. I upgraded the rear shocks to the Koni Yellow 8241-1140sport adjustable shocks...which are specifically for 93-02 fbody. the reason i got these instead of the ones for the 82-92 fbody is because these are ON-CAR adjustable, while the 82-92 versions have to be taken OFF of the car to be adjusted and then reinstalled. the 82-92 are dual valved though, and these are only single valved.. but the on-car adjustment is important to me. my rears are currently set at 1.0 turns up (out of a total of 2.5)






reinstalled and rewired the repaired MSD Digital 6 ignition box also. installed a new speedometer cable because the old one had a split in the housing where it mated to the transmission and leaked fluid slightly. ATP cable #03159 P/N Y815 80" long. got both of my oem sun visors recovered at a local upholstery shop because the fabric was getting loose and that just didnt jive with my mint headliner.

Decided to do the "4th gen coolant tank mod" and get rid of the location of my factory tank from the passenger inner fender. cut out most of my battery tray since it had become rusty and because I had to cut a pear shaped hole in it anyway to install the tank setup. replaced the tray with a piece of 1/8" sheet aluminum which I cut the pear shaped hole into. primered and painted it red and dressed the hole with some rubber vac tubing to eliminate any tank rubbing on the sharp edges. filled in the holes on the inner fender with epoxy, then body filler, sanding, primer, paint etc. cleans up the engine bay a LOT by not having the bright white goofy plastic tank there. my battery now sits higher but does not come close to interfering with the hood.






















...finally got the transmission back from the builder who upgraded it after repairing the worn 3-4 clutch pack and also resurfacing a few components that had some wear. he also found that a plunger in the valve body was stuck in place by a piece of metal that somehow found its way into the system. it COULD be from the old exploded transmission which COULD have left pieces of metal in the system... However, in 2016 I did do my very best to flush the lines, and the trans cooler inside the radiator using TWO cans of the trans system flush aerosol can product after explosion of old trans. I now have installed an in-line magnetic transmission fluid filter made by magnefine in case there are any additional particles that may be in the system. trans has been beefed up to" hold 750-800" flywheel hp. details here: https://probuiltautomatics.com/shop?...scend_by_price
-- (actually it looks like Dana just changed his website around and now doesnt list the full details of each product on the website anymore?? hmm. interesting. oh well)
- put a drain plug in the pan also to help prevent any future messy trans fluid spills when removing the pan. While installing the crossmember, 2 out of the 4 bolts started to become stripped. I know this is a common thing for these unibody fbody crossmember setups and happens after repeated removal/installs due to the cheap-o metal captured nuts that GM welded inside the frame. I did my research on thirdgen.org and I was successful with the easiest repair method.... This simply involves re-tapping the bolt holes to a larger size and installing larger 7/16" bolts. the other methods involve cutting side access holes into the frame, or removing the interior and carpet to drill access holes through the floor to weld in new nuts. perhaps in the future i'll do that if the interior is out, but for now the new bolts are holding snug.







Installed the front Koni yellow struts P/N 8741-1030Sport. these are specific for the 82-92 fbody. I currently only have them cranked 1.0 turns up from zero. greased all steering and suspension components and cleaned up underside of the chassis. brought the car for an alignment and got everything sorted out how I wanted it to be. also set the driveline angle at 3deg according to my tremec driveline angle finder app. (cool free app by the way)









after a few short test drives and another bolt check underneath the entire car I took it out for a good 20 minutes and everything felt fine. the trans doesn't seem to like shifting from 1-2 at very low rpm throttle input, it kinda bucks two or three times after the shift...again when basically coasting. I'll see if this goes awayand do some research as well.
I checked fuel pressure since I was worried that the new upgraded fuel pump/system might have disrupted the psi and found that when I dialed the pressure down to the stock 48 / 42 psi settings (vac hose off/on) the engine did not like it at all. It seemed to run the happiest when at 51psi/44psi so I left it set at that. Got the nitrous tank filled at Bruce's Seed shop and did a few quick 3-4 second rips with that to ensure that my nitrous related MSD box wiring and fuel system stuff was in order... and it was.


So for now it will be on the road for a while. I have no immediate plans on the calendar yet for any autocross or drag racing. I do want to do some autoX at the Meadowlands this year, but might hold off on drag racing since I am still driving around with the hurt rear and do not have the $ to buy a new beefed up one. I plan on some long fun cruises, cruise nights, car shows, the UMI autoX event, and some general thrashing when appropriate. I will need to do a full blown intense wash, strip, claybar, polish, sealant, wax session in a few weeks when the pollen is all gone. I stopped by CTW Paul's house and picked up a LOT of awesome detail supplies from him for a great price. (also picked up a full cat-back Magnaflow exhaust setup for my truck). Thats all, just wanted to update. Still slowly saving for a rear axle and for the big engine project. hopefully this winter, but dang my wifes college bills have really been eating into my engine savings account! oh well. thats life.

[ar0ck]

Now this is the stuff I like to see on the forums! Looks incredible!

[sweetbmxrider]

Excellent work as always!

[Blackbirdws6]

Really enjoying the thorough explanation, detailed pics and commentary. Keep it coming and glad it's back on the road.

[WildBillyT]

Looks great!!

[deadtrend1]

I would make a strap for that battery. The 4th gen trays have a habit of breaking.

[IROCZman15]

Originally Posted by deadtrend1

I would make a strap for that battery. The 4th gen trays have a habit of breaking.

woah, I had no idea about that. that is sure good to know. I'll do some research and see if I can make one (or something) that looks classy but provides support. thank you


drove the car into work tonight (30 minutes, 17 miles) all is working well except I can hear intermittent noises from the rear end (which is hurt and missing one sheared off diff/ring bolt head) i'll check fluid in a week or so after driving it more miles, maybe i'll play around a tad more with setting the driveline/pinion angle too. i only hear the noise when not on the throttle, when the gears are "coasting". also, when i am put-putting very low rpm's the 1-2 shift is a bit jerky, but when I am at any moderate (20% an up) throttle input the 1-2 shift is rock solid and feels great. i guess it just doesnt like to be limped from 1-2 . interesting.

[IROCZman15]

So, it has been about a year since I last updated this, and I am happy to say that this upcoming winter the engine replacement will be happening. During 2018 I put a few thousand miles on the car, and did some autoX with it. over this past winter I removed the old hurt 10 bolt and replaced it with a Moser 12 bolt (link: http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68687) It should hold 900 Horsepower from what Moser Engineering told me. new 12 bolt housing with 3" tubes, fully welded all around. 33 spline axles. Detroit TruTrack rear Diff. 1/2"x2" screw-in wheel studs. ball bearings on the housing ends. no-clips. solid pinion spacer. chrome-moly pinion yoke. aluminum rear cover. built in adjustable lower control arm mounts. powdercoated black. heavy and beefy. I also had a driveshaft made by Denny's Driveshafts which I was told is good to hold about 1,500 horsepower. 3" tube. chrome-moly slip yoke. high speed balanced. lifetime warranty. I had to sort out some wild ignition issues which melted down my distributor cap and fried a diode in my MSD Digital6 ignition box also. The car got a full 4 corner alignment and drive-line angle was set. I had the mis-aligned rear hatch, so I removed the deck-lid and reinstalled it so everything lines up properly. I now have a few hundred miles on it this year and I am super happy about it all.

However I am getting amped up to get things moving towards the engine swap. Working overtime as much as I can to collect the funds so I can buy the engine flat-out. I am 99% sure it will be the engine I listed in post#1 a while back. http://nyesautomotive.net/406_525hp_EFI.html a 406 with EFI. basically a new DART SHP block, Callies crank and rods (NOT the Eagle ones.. scroll to the bottom of the link page for callies crank/rods). Dart Pro1 cylinder heads. Holley Sniper tbi tyle EFi (possibly might upgrade to the Holey Super Sniper unit). Dyno Tested to 525 hp, and shipped to my door. I spoke with them and they can file the rings and make any other mods needed so that I can run a 200-250 progressive wet shot of nitrous too. The holley sniper can control cooling fans, nitrous progressive shots, tune settings and so forth.

My biggest dilemma is going to be the exhaust and headers. I currently have the DynoDon's 1 3/4" short/mid-length headers. they are awesome for my current setup.. and perhaps might be "ok" with the new engine N/A, but not for the engine when its on the nitrous. I am pretty sure I will need a set of 1 7/8" or bigger headers. Biggest problem--- my car is a street car and it is LOW. In all practicality, I don't think a set of long tube headers will work. I spent a lot of time on Thirdgen.org and the hooker and other long tube headers would probably sit way too low for my already low street car. I might have to just get a set of headers custom built for the car. Expensive! bummer. As for the rest of the exhaust, I don't have any desire to run a dual exhaust.. nor do I think it would be easy, since I have the S&W subframe/torque arm kit that has a low crossmember under the driveshaft. I think I will go with a 4" mufflex exhaust system... with a proper muffler.


I think the plan for 2019 is to drive the car to events, shows, do some autoX and maybe even chug it down the 1/4 mile a few times. Around November, PRIOR to pulling out the engine, I would like to get the car over to S&W racecars in Pennsylvania and have them install a 6 point roll-bar setup with swing-outs on both sides. After that is done, I can drive the car home and start pulling it apart. I want to relocate the Optima red-top battery to the rear (under pass side trunk area), and redo all the needed wiring. I will also need to install an On-OFF kill switch too. Then I'll remove the current engine (and probably transmission too). I want to spend some time in the engine bay patching holes, relocating things, running new nickle-copper brake lines, and then paint the engine bay. Once things are proper in there, I can install the new engine with the trans (prob both at the same time). Will have to see if my 2,800 rpm Edge racing converter should be replaced?? Then bolt up my existing DynoDon's headers to just get the engine running and car sorted out. If those are a problem, I'll have to decide if having a custom set of headers built is the best way to go.
I am NOT sure what I will be doing with the accessory drive or pulleys yet. I ONLY need a water pump, power steering pump, and alternator. I might wind up just using my existing 140 amp powermaster alternator and existing power steering pump. I see online companies (march, Eddie motorsports, billet specialties, etc) want about $1,800 for nice billet accessory drive kits. That might be out of my budget for this year, it might just have to wait. my current parts/brackets aren't super pretty, but if I can use them while saving up $ for a fancy accessory drive setup, that might be the way to go.

I also plan on installing a brand new radiator since the engine, water pump, hoses, etc will be brand new. I will probably go with a large 2 core radiator, as I have read that some 2 cores work better than some 3 core radiators. I'll need a new catch can too. I want to keep the current (oem stock) dual puller fans too. so if I can find a proper radiator that the fan mounting assembly will work with, that would be awesome. again, the fans will be controlled by the Holley Sniper computer .

all in all, the car is pretty much set for 2019. I am going to enjoy it as it is now and patiently wait for the big stuff to begin in November.

anyone that has any thoughts, ideas, recommendations, negative/positive comments, feel free to share. any parts recommendations or links to important stuff is appreciated.

[Blackbirdws6]

Nice to see you are ready to roll for the season.

I think my only question, not a critique, is why this engine is the one getting the nod? I'm not knocking the decision but just curious.

[IROCZman15]

Glad you asked, I should have gotten into that a bit,

I always had intentions of keeping the car a gen 1 sbc. so LT, LS, LSX, LXX, XXL, etc are all eliminated right away. I want a solid block for long term use and a Dart Little M is too over the top, so a Dart SHP is the best fit.

I began searching for fully built engines a few years ago and came across the usual stuff from BluePrint engines, Skip White, White Performance, Proformance unlimited etc etc. Spent a lot of time reading reviews too. I am certainly not skilled enough to assemble my own stout short or long block. (I MAY TRY to tear down my current camaro's engine and give it a freshen up later on) but I would not trust myself with all sorts of expensive engine components, so I want a pro shop to do it. Ohio Crankshaft had some good engines too.

I read many reviews when I searched even deeper than just a simple google search for Nyes Performance engines. Dug into a bunch of threads on yellowbullet.com and actually even reached out to some people via PM on other internet sites who had a Nyes engine. all had very good things to say. I stopped by The Engine Factory in Lebanon, NJ a year or so ago, and they said they could build just what I wanted for $13,900 or I could have a 434 cubic inch for $15,900. Price was a bit too far out of reach for me when I could have the Nyes one for $11,000 plus shipping. There are local engine building shops nearby too, and I'm sure they could do it, but since Nyes builds these combinations of engines quite often, they probably have it down to a really good science, whereas Im sure a local shop could do it too, but they may not have all the variables as fully refined as Nyes probably does.

I wasn't set on a 406 for displacement, but from what I have learned (and been told), the rotating combination of a 427 doesn't jive with my intended use and nitrous. I was told by two people to flat out not go with a 427 nitrous setup. basically, I could go with a 406, 421, 434.

I want EFI, but I'm not a tuner and don't want to overly be obsessed with tuning and data-logging a street/strip/show/car. I want what the holley sniper (and holley super sniper) seem to offer, self learning tuning, various inputs and outputs, datalogging, and basic drive-ability reliability. I am not looking to grab every single hp capable out of the engine either. .... I want to be able to fire up the car, drive it with minimal worries, and hammer on it at will without constantly tuning a carb or an advanced efi system or having parts be on the ragged edge of driveability.

if anyone knows of some fully built/dyno'd engine combinations like this, please let me know. I have several months before I purchase an engine still.