Getting my new 406 SBC installed, running, and driving

[3.4 grape of wrath]

Beautiful build.

[sweetbmxrider]

On at 210 and off at 280?

[grazi]

Looks awesome dude

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

On at 210 and off at 280?

Prob in the theory that you have a problem and you don't want the fan turning off.

I think both of mine come on around 180, my car never gets above 200 afaik

[IROCZman15]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

On at 210 and off at 280?

oh wow! I didn't notice my typo. that was a mistake. my bad.

I changed some of the settings in the handheld today actually, but the 280 deg was a mistake

Fan1: on 190 off 160
Fan 2: on 215 off 195


I dont think the holley software allows you to have the fan off temp at/above the fan on temp. it must be below or the handheld wont let you input the info.
thoughts?

[sweetbmxrider]

Makes sense to me

[PolarBear]

I don't know if this is right or not, but I think you want to set your fan temps closer to the thermostat, no? Fan 2 would basically be an "oh ****, somethings wrong" fan and will probably never come on at all. Those on/off temps seem way too far apart too.
I have the fans in my car come on at 20 above the thermostat, and off 5 over, then the other fan is 30 over and 5 above. Something like that, so fan 2 comes on more frequently as needed instead of waiting until you have a LOT of heat in the system

With it like that, when you're sitting still the temp is going to go all the way up to 190, then down to 160, over and over instead of keeping the temp relatively consistent.

[IROCZman15]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

I don't know if this is right or not, but I think you want to set your fan temps closer to the thermostat, no? Fan 2 would basically be an "oh ****, somethings wrong" fan and will probably never come on at all. Those on/off temps seem way too far apart too.
I have the fans in my car come on at 20 above the thermostat, and off 5 over, then the other fan is 30 over and 5 above. Something like that, so fan 2 comes on more frequently as needed instead of waiting until you have a LOT of heat in the system

With it like that, when you're sitting still the temp is going to go all the way up to 190, then down to 160, over and over instead of keeping the temp relatively consistent.

good point, good point. that's the type of feedback and advice I like to hear on this thread. thanks man.

What numbers do you suggest I use for the fan1 and fan 2 then. 160 deg thermostat.. and more importantly, the Holley Sniper ecm changed from open loop to closed loop and begins learning (fuel enrichment etc) only when the engine gets up to 160 deg. It provides the 160 deg number many times in the user manual, so I don't want to really be cooling the engine down below that, or it would cause the ecm to change back to open loop and non-learning, etc? right? or wrong?



so, the torque converter shipped out today, it should arrive friday. perhaps I can get it installed with the trans and driveshaft and get the car out for a road test by the end of the weekend..?


However, I still need an air cleaner assembly, so I built a mock-up of a oval shaped one and a circle shaped one out of cardboard just to check the dimensions and hood clearance..as well as to see what it might look like cosmetically. both cardboard mock-ups are a bit taller/chunkier than actual part dimensions, but it was just for a quick visual look, and to check hood clearance. here are some photos... here are some photos...





















thoughts?




so, from my choices below, you can kind of tell that I am leaning towards the oval shape. I want something sleek but bold/aggressive. no company logos/names/writing on it, no colors or powdercoating, and capable of flowing enough air into the engine. the circle style will work, but it seems too traditional to me.


Here are some choices (in order of my choices):

1. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-15420

2. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-15320 (less long than the one above this)

3. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-15640

4. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g280

5. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g286

6. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-15329

7. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-15429

8. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ems-ms215-96p

9. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ems-ms215-90p

10. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-120-141

11. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ems-ms215-91m

12. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-15630

13. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-6021

14. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdm-pce104-1006



In the end it will come down to my personal preference, but figured I would put some choices out there to see if anyone had any serious gripes or criticism before I place the order tomorrow night. .

[sweetbmxrider]

That first one looks nice man, I like it

[unstable bob gable]

I think an oval one looks pretty boss.

[PolarBear]

I don't know, maybe fan 1 on at 175* and off at 160 then fan 2 on at 185 off at 165?

Since you have a 160 thermostat, and you should have enough cooling capacity, when you're cruising the car should stay around 160-165 without the fans. I don't see why you would want the car to get much higher temp than that when you're sitting still.

If someone wants to call me out on my logic, please do.

[IROCZman15]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

I don't know, maybe fan 1 on at 175* and off at 160 then fan 2 on at 185 off at 165?

Since you have a 160 thermostat, and you should have enough cooling capacity, when you're cruising the car should stay around 160-165 without the fans. I don't see why you would want the car to get much higher temp than that when you're sitting still.

If someone wants to call me out on my logic, please do.

awesome. yea, that does sound a bit more appropriate. I am really hoping never to see over 200 210 deg on on the temp gauge. so settign the fans around the values you listed would be better. and, if I know that I am driving into traffic on a hot day, I can go into the handheld and a few clicks later I cna change the values to get the fans to turn on and stay on, and then reset them later on. if needed. probably going to have to see how the car/engine likes it in early spring, and then re-assess things come the heat of summer.



I am glad everyone seems to like the oval shape, even lots of friends from my other groups all like the oval. I expected to have more people say go with a traditional circle, but i am glad to hear the oval is the general consensus.

here are few quick photshops,

my favorite choice is still the longer billet specialties one:




but here are a few others.




I might not go with a red/purple K&N filter though. white paper filter element seems to look better with the silver and polished components.

not much a fan of hte edelbrock writing on it tho

[wretched73]

I like the first 2 photoshops the best. Just make sure to jam the biggest one you can fit

[IROCZman15]

I decided on buying the one I liked from the start, the Billet Specialties 15420. It arrived yesterday and I had my wife help me put it on. I have plenty of hood height clearance, which will be good for when I do put the nitrous wet-plate on. I could perhaps go with a taller filter element too, but this one is good for now.























The torque converter arrived back from Edge Racing Converters, it now has a 3,400 stall and a renewed 2 year warranty. anti ballooning plates etc.





Installed the converter today, as well as the transmission (a ProStreet Elite unit from Dana at Probuilt Automatics). Bolted in the Dennys nitrous-ready driveshaft, ran the trans lines, lokar cut-to-fit TV cable, shifter cable, etc. The Lokar "anchor-tight" dipstick I got is too long.....I kinda thought it was going to be, but I had no real way to measure the length I needed when the trans was not in the car. So, I just ordered Lokar 1211234 (13") to replace my Lokar 1211244 (26") dipstick and tube. THANKFULLY, I will simply be able to un-click the dipstick tube from the transmission fitting and click in the newer, shorter one; thats the design of the lokar anchor-tight units, should be a quick install. My longer one will be going up for sale, and is in perfect condition. it is just too long and I have nowhere on the firewall I want to mount it. (see photo and video)



Gave the entire car a check over, and lowered it down to the ground. Started it up and pulled it out in the driveway. Added more ATF (AMSOIL ATF and 1 gallon of the CATerpillar ATF that Dana recommended). Drove around the neighborhood a few times stopping at my house occasionally to check, and add atf as needed.

Car drove great. sounds AWESOME in real life. I have the cut-out half open in this youtube video of it at idle. Total run time today was about 45 minutes, and it never stalled or anything. The Holley sniper display is something I need to get familiar with glancing at while I drive, and I still need to learn/adjust some parameters. Fan 1 came on when I was idling for a while and the coolant temp got to about 195.


(yea, see the the tach difference on the holley vs the oem gauge, I've read about it before)





After the low speed neighborhood laps I took it out to a few main roads and laid into it a bit. It sure has a lot more torque than my old 305 and revv's up fast. It basically just blows the tires off in 1st and 2nd gear until I get off the pedal. It will take some getting used to thats for sure, but it put a huge smile on my face to finally have this car at a performance level I have dreamed of.

some things I need to take care of:
- Shorter anchor-tight trans dipstick (has been ordered)
- fix power steering belt and tighten better (it slipped off the pulley)
- something must be loose inside my Hooker muffler, as I hear a odd flutter from it and when I knock on the muffler case something metallic rattles/buzzes
- cleanup/detailing of the engine bay and painting some bolt heads, hood hinges, install filler plate in bumper etc
(oh, and after I finish off these Nitto 555 street tires, I am going to have to look for something with much more grip)


this video was taken the first minute I pulled it out of the garage when the sniper was in open loop and is still learning the engine.* after the 12 miles today the idle has cleaned up a lot and it runs much smoother.*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaXsGx2nytU


overall, super happy with this project! the dream of taking my high school car and turning it into a +500 hp street car is pretty much complete

[sweetbmxrider]

Nice work, Dave. Car definitely sounds healthy haha. Can’t wait for you to go racing!!

[LTb1ow]

Did you measure and adjust the trans dipstick for correct fluid level?

[IROCZman15]

Originally Posted by LTb1ow

Did you measure and adjust the trans dipstick for correct fluid level?

not sure that I do have to do that? I got the Lokarn anchor-tight dipstick that is specifically made for the 700R4, so I didnt think i would have to adjust anything? these type dipsticks arte not made to ber measured or cut or modified as far as I've ever seen/re3ad.


thanks adam, it sound smuch better in person, especially with the cutout half-open. with it totally closed the car is just the right amount of quiet to avoid being noticed when I dont want to nbe and to keep the neighbord happy at odd hours of the day/night. when its fully open the exhaust gets a little raspy as it goes through the rpms,

I tightened up the power steerin belt and went for a drive today, about 15 miles. it should be good to go now. I might pull some spark plugs later and give them a look.

I plan to download the Holey EFI sniper software and try to put my brain to learning it. maybe try some data logs etc

[LTb1ow]

Ya, I am not sure, on my lokar, I had to trim the end so the dipstick part would show the correct level. Granted, I may have had a universal version.

And def download the software, I am certainly no expert but there is a ton of info out there to support the stuff. I am really enjoying constantly tweaking and playing with my tune while I wait for my hotside to be back on car.

[IROCZman15]

I downloaded the software to my desktop computer in the house successfully, but was sad to learn that when I tried to download the same holley sniper efi software to the very old (10 year old HP laptop I got for free from a co-worker) that I keep in the garage, the software won't download to it. Bummer, I was going to try to use this laptop specifically just for the car and garage only. crap. Also, I know zero.zero info about tuning or how to even read data, so once I data log, making any sense out of it will take me some time, as well as making changes(correct changes)



I drove the car more today. roads were very crowded so I couldnt really get on it to much. I did hit the highway a little bit. when I mash the throttle at mid/higher rpms, the car does want to get up and go, but it sure doesn't feel like +500 hp worth of power. it felt similar to the pull/surge of spraying the 100 nitrous shot into my old 305 at wot, good and noticeable, but nothing neck breaking. I am sure tthat something's gotta be adjusted or figured out, which is a new territory for me; troubleshooting/tuning/dialing-it-in. . I do feel the instant kick/torque from a dead stop, slow roll, but it doesnt feel like its making the big power. ?? I expected to be rocked going from a TPI 305 with a 100 shot to a 531hp/513 tq level. I know there is a fair amount of tire spin, but I think there is more to this that I have to figure out to make the engine come alive in the car as opposed to the engine dyno.

I also have a chirp/shreeeak/weeeessshhhhh noise (not a squeal) for about 1.5 seconds whenever I go to WOT. Something is telling me it is not a belt, but coming from the sniper?? I searched online about this, but nothing much came up. Might call Holley tomorrow and ask.

IT is supposed to be nice weather tomorrow, so maybe I can take the car out again for a bit and try to datalog. I also wanted to try the 1/4 and 1/8 mile feature of the free TRC (That Racing Channel) phone app. I am no experienced racer, but right now the car feels like a high 12 second car, which isn't a bad starting point, but I believe that for the power/tq of the new motor, the 3,400 converter, 3.55 gears, and approx 3,400 pounds (plus another 200 pounds with me driving) it should be quite a bit rowdier. It definitely felt that way yesterday, but today not so much. it was fast, but not where it should be.

I can try to get the car weighed again at the local quarry tomorrow too, since I last weighed in in November with the old engine etc and it was 3,410 without me. I'll check plugs, belts, vac leaks, and to an underneath/engine bay bolt check too.


- Anyone with any suggestions, tuning ideas, component configuration changes, let me know. and thank you! It'll get there, I just have to figure out how to make it feel/perform like a mid-high 11 second car, which is the territory I was shooting for before pouring nitrous to it.

[LTb1ow]

If you are doing this all on the base holley tune, I would highly suggest not doing that.

The canned tune it created for my car was pretty bad, it would probably run, but I would not expect much else from it.

[wretched73]

Doesn't it have the same tune in it that it was dyno'd with?

Can you post that dyno sheet again?

[IROCZman15]

it's not the base Holley tune. it is indeed the tune from when the engine was dyno'd, but there wasn't much tuning that needed to be done on the dyno. the sniper is NOT controlling timing advance ..that is still currently handled by the weights/springs in the new distributor...for now. But it was run on the dyno in this exact configuration. In my car, its a different story (converter, exhaust, gears) Took the car out today again for a short bit, its certainly good at frying the tires down low and accelerating great, but not earth shattering just yet.

Stopepd over at the quarry's scale and weighed it with a full tank of fuel. Previous weight was 3,410. Current weight is 3,440. I know the heavy 1 gauge wiring (78 feet of it!) added weight during the battery relocation project and battery box. Glad the new engine, sheetmetal enginebay panels, cooling system, etc didn't add too much to the car. I am sure I lost weight somewhere too, but gained it back as well. Would love to put it on 4 corner scales again and see how my weight distribution is, but for now, I'll live with the 3,440 pounds. street-car

Called holley about the TBI whistle noise. They knew exactly what I was talking about! I also found info on it online and the whistle noise was discussed in a youtube video. People determined it to be with the airflow through/past the IAC. it causes a completely harmless whistle, but it is indeed an odd sound for a N/A car! the solution is one of those 4 barrel carb/tbi spacers. I will probably do this to solve the whistle noise, but ALSO because I am surprised how much heat soak makes it up to the ECU area of the sniper unit. Many people (including holley tech) recommend a 4 barrel spacer to keep the heat out of the TBI and it's self-contained ECU unit. Will order one soon.

Called pat at Nyes. He suggested I check the ignition timing not only at idle (which I checked and is 14-15 deg with my timing light), but also at 3,500 rpm when it should be full advanced and be around 38 deg. This is not something I have ever checked before, and I'll need a helper/neighbor/wife to come work the pedal. I tried it today, but my timing light (innova) wasn't flashing steady at higher RPMs??? new territory for me. Pat said that sometimes the combination of MSD boxes, coil, distributor, etc can retard ignition timing a few deg during advance, so perhaps diagnosing this as correct or incorrect can help steer me in the right direction. This can/will all change later when I lock-out the distributor and let the sniper control timing, but for now I' would like to check it as it is configured.

otherwise, I want to put the car up in the air again, do a full bolt/nut check on everything, check driveline angle, degrease underneath, and figure out that exhaust shield/muffler rattle. have to realign the hood, and install the shorter trans fluid dipstick when it arrives.

I took a few data logs while doing some easy driving around town today, so maybe I'll get them uploaded and start to learn. I would love to try to put a newer version of windows on that olde laptop I have. While talking to Holley tech they told me the sniper software won't work with Windows Xp which is what I have on that old laptop. It also runs very slow, but I was hoping to try to make it work. otherwise I'll just have to remove the SD card and bring it inside to my desktop.

here is the dyno sheet. also the build sheet and tech info is on page 1 of this thread too

engine was in the exact same configuration as it is now (aside from air filter), afterwards oil was drained and new oil filter put on. plugs were left in it and showed a nice ignition firing mark on the straps when it arrived. gapped at .035 autolite 3924

[WildBillyT]

Sounds like you need to dig in to the timing a bit.

You aren't using a dial back timing light are you? Those don't always play nice with MSD boxes.

[grazi]

What value is sniper showing at idle. Should be around 30 I believe. If the iac is commanded to fully open (I believe it’s 80 on the handheld) you’ll hear the whistle. You may need to adjust your throttle blades

[IROCZman15]

WBT : I am using this timing light. https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...cal&store=7681 I don't think it is a "dial back" style right? Timing/tuning is a very new topic for me so bear with me as I learn!


grazi : what value are you referring to? IAC ? I have read about adjusting throttle blades. I get the whistle when the TPS sensor reads above 30% open or so, it happened 3 times today and I saw about 30-35% on the TPS reading at that time. Unsure of the IAC value at that moment though


I have so far put 105 miles on the car/engine since saturday; almost one full tank of gas, but lots of idleing and stationary running time. Did a good 40 miles of highway today. It is definitely no slouch! It pulls hard in every gear except 4th(OD). I like it, I will check and verify timing at full advance(should be 38 deg right)? I think the sniper is learning, since throttle response and drive-ability is seeming to get better. I just want to be sure I'm not operating at a reduced capability of what the engine is capable of, thats what I meant by my previous posts... it reaching its full potential..



Last night I de-greased the underside completely. Very clean chassis now. This was because, yesterday I was sad to see a drip of oil coming form the pan/flexplate area when I pulled out of the garage. I checked, and it looks like leaking at the rear main? I am thinking this is because I do not have a PVC valve... I have seen some light smoke vapor coming from both valve cover breathers when the hood is open and engine is idling while hot. I think I have too much crankcase pressure. I will remove one breather and put in a PCV valve. Any suggestions on one that is not just a cheap-o plastic chineese component? I would like something nice, reliable, shiny, and compact. I only will be doing a PCV on the one valve cover and the other one will retain a breather. I am not in the market for expensive new valve covers yet, so we are going to try one PVC and see if ti works.
-Question, if the rear main seal is now leaking, is there a chance that it can NOT leak if I install a PCV, or is it pretty much now that the seal leaks, it will always leak? I am going to call Pat at Nyes too, but figured I would ask here.


The car is indeed fast. The engine has power, thats for sure. I hope to get it all dialed in somewhat soon, but there is a chance that if Island dragway is open for test and tune this sunday, I might go. Despite my 5 year old and worn out Nitto 555 street tires, I would hope for a mid-low 12 ? Thoughts? in full street trim.

I determined the source of the exhaust rattle. I took down the Hooker AeroChamber muffler and found that an internal pipe in the muffler broke off of its bracket inside the case. No way to remove it and no way to fix it without cutting open the whole muffler case and re-welding it. No thanks. Holley/Hooker is replacing it at reduced cost and free shipping. short video explaining what the heck I'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PojNWPOOwKk

I don't mind the whistle, but i want to try to adjust IAC and throttle blades if that might clear up the whistle and also maximize performance. I still might do an inexpensive Phenolic spacer, in order to reduce heat soak to the sniper ecu. Just preventative. thoughts? I have read that ONLY 4 barrel/hole spacers are suggested with the sniper. somethign liek : https://www.ebay.com/i/261328386669?...hoC7UUQAvD_BwE thoughts? I STILL have every intention of hooking up my nitrous to this engine one day. I am wondering if the above spacer will play nice with a wet nitrous plate??


My shorter trans dipstick arrives today. will install it while cleaning up the trace amount of oil at the rear seal that I can see. I really hope the seal issue can go way with a PCV system.

I am probably going to be buying/installing hood pins soon. I was doing some "testing" and at high speeds I can still see my fiberglass hood lift. I have all new hood bumpers and pads and they are adjusted as best as I can get, but I would really really hate to have the fiberglass hood lift and crack or fly open/off. I love the clean look of my hood, but I think a nice set of hood pins would be ok. I am not into the areocatch or quick latch style for this car, so something like : https://www.summitracing.com/parts/d...oaAl_lEALw_wcB with the lanyards/cables removed.