How the hell is this possible?

[Crayface]

i just reread this article and dammmm he is from my town! lol im going to have to watch out driving in my town now...

[NJSPEEDER]

I think you are on the right track Jim. It isn't that there aren't good rules out there, it is more about the system of enforcing them and dealing with those convicted is broken.

Police get stuck with their time being devoted to whatever task force or enforcement blitz local politicians think will best help their re-election efforts. Elected officials even going as far as only releasing funding to departments and barracks are enforcing those chosen tasks.

Then, after the police get the time to actually do their jobs other than just the politically popular parts, we have no real rehabilitation system. Prisons have become a for profit industry and the people running them honestly have no obligation or motivation to fix what we can all see is broken.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by jims69camaro

at the very least treat it like the disease that it is and get the person treatment. intervention has to come way before people are allowed to get to this point, because (as our membership shows) when it gets here all people want is his head on a spike.

I hate when people call alcoholism a "disease". It isnt a disease, it is more like a disorder and I use the term lightly. Your body isnt addicted to alcohol like some drugs, it is poison pure and simple. Dont put it in you and you wont have any problems. Its all about making a choice and most people choose to do the wrong thing.

[Crayface]

Originally Posted by scooter

I hate when people call alcoholism a "disease". It isnt a disease, it is more like a disorder and I use the term lightly. Your body isnt addicted to alcohol like some drugs, it is poison pure and simple. Dont put it in you and you wont have any problems. Its all about making a choice and most people choose to do the wrong thing.

Those people who call alcoholism a "Disease" are the ones who are correct. I work Security for a hospital and all the Police Officers who pick up drunks off the street cannot goto the station and put them in a "Drunk tank" they are required to goto the hospital. You may not think it is a Disease but our wonderful state specificly defines alcoholism as a disease.

[PolarBear]

If you believe everything you read and your government tells you I feel really sorry for you

[Crayface]

Originally Posted by scooter

If you believe everything you read and your government tells you I feel really sorry for you

yea since you deal with this everyday.... I work with drunks all the time at my job. I know for a F-A-C-T that it is considered a disease in the eyes of New Jersey. if you dont think so then you dont, but understand you are the one getting annoyed about people making factual statements.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Crayface

yea since you deal with this everyday.... I work with drunks all the time at my job. I know for a F-A-C-T that it is considered a disease in the eyes of New Jersey. if you dont think so then you dont, but understand you are the one getting annoyed about people making factual statements.

I think you read his intent wrong. I don't think he is saying the govt doesn't see it as a disease, I think he is saying it's wrong that they do.



I still think this one little article is not painting the whole story, as noted often the numbers don't add up too well. The laws have changed over the years and perhaps a good deal of this was prior to tougher laws. plus we are assuming the content is correct.

[98tadriver]

Originally Posted by wretched73

Just cut both of his legs off. Someone better suited might need one... Plus he could still drive with a stub

he could still drive with no legs! lol

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

I think you read his intent wrong. I don't think he is saying the govt doesn't see it as a disease, I think he is saying it's wrong that they do.

Yeah thats basically what I was saying. I dont feel mental deficiencies should be classified under diseases.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Crayface

yea since you deal with this everyday.... I work with drunks all the time at my job. I know for a F-A-C-T that it is considered a disease in the eyes of New Jersey. if you dont think so then you dont, but understand you are the one getting annoyed about people making factual statements.

what do you do?

[Crayface]

Security for a Hospital, basicly after the cops get the drunks, they dump them off in the Emergency room. some are calm, then others just like to fight, but thats why im there!

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Crayface

yea since you deal with this everyday....

Originally Posted by Crayface

Security for a Hospital,

I fail to see how these two things prove that you know alcoholism to be "fact" except you are again referring to my previous statement that you are listening to something someone else told you. I am not trying to pick a fight here but some of what you read and told are things that start with some sort of assumption.

[LTb1ow]

So the people that have alcoholism in their family are just weak minded fools who cannot control themselves?

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Shownomercy

So the people that have alcoholism in their family are just weak minded fools who cannot control themselves?

For the most part I believe that to be true. I know someone that was diagnosed with another mental disease and I know they use it as an excuse to continue to act how ever he/she wants.
I am not saying these people dont have something wrong with them but I think it is largely an excuse and a lot of them do not want the help. Unfortunately people in the OP link show the absolute worst case scenario but people like that dont give a fiddlers f%$# what they do or who they hurt. I have been there where I saw that alcohol could become a problem for me and I chose not to contine drinking like I did, my cousin is in a similar situation and I worry about him sometimes because he tells me how he got drunk this night or that.
People that are alcoholics do need help but I do not think this is a disease

[LTb1ow]

Ignorance is bliss.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Shownomercy

I think your ignorant of what having an addiction means.

Please educate me then. I know a physical addiction is real. You dont get your heroin or other drug and you DIE because of it. You can die from a mental addiction. Through couseling and support groups these people can overcome these issues.
Like I said there is something wrong with them and they DO need help.

[LTb1ow]

I edited my post. Don't wanna argue.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Shownomercy

Ignorance is bliss.

Originally Posted by Shownomercy

I edited my post. Don't wanna argue.

I am not ignorant.

[LTb1ow]

And I am not a duck?

Whats your point?

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Shownomercy

And I am not a duck?

Whats your point?

You insinuated that I am ignorant.
No one here is providing any information against my opinion. And unless you have personally done the research yourself you have to feder to another person. I have seen people with similar "diseases" amd I dont believe it for one second. I may be downright WRONG but I can still have my opinion.
I dont necessarily trust what a doctor says about someones mental state especially when I was put on a medication for something and it screwed up my nervous system and I should not have been put on the medication in the first place.

[LTb1ow]

Nope, it was just directed in general.

I could be ignorant, you could be ignorant, point being I just don't feel like writing up something to back my side so I am just leaving it at that.

[Crayface]

lol this thread is hilarious.....whos up next to share opinions with scooter? hahaha

[bubba428]

Originally Posted by Shownomercy

And I am not a duck?

Whats your point?

i'm sure at any other hour of the day that would be just one more in the plethora of misspellings from a number of people, myself very much so included. but for some reason, at 4am, I'm litteraly in tears laughing at that. I don't know why but when I read that I pictured a duck, in a bar, ****faced, saying "and I am not a duck". just thought I'd share that.

[maroman88]

i agree with scooter 100%

[Formulalt1]

Originally Posted by scooter

Yeah thats basically what I was saying. I dont feel mental deficiencies should be classified under diseases.

I half agree with this and half don't. There are people out there due to there mental state, that are not aware of what they are doing or how they are behaving but most of the time the laws that where meant to get help for these rather than punish them are used on people without this mental state as a way out.

I do strongly believe in addiction as being a very real handicap in life. I believe some should take responsibility for putting themselves in a position to become a habit forming junky to whatever there negative influence in life is, but if there is one thing I have learned in my over 31 years on this planet is that life would be alot less optimistic without second chances (not 15th chances not 28th chances). It is easy to sit back and judge everyone around you for there flaws and what they did to get themselves in a position none of us would want to be in but who among us has never made a decision that could possibly have had horrible consequence in our life or better yet I bet there are alot of people that did the negative action and where the unlucky one's to have the consequence's. should it be lets lock up them,throw away the key and not give them a chance to turn things around for themself(ofcourse I am aware there are extreme cases where this is necessary).

Some people and I have been there don't completely understand risk until the worst possibly imaginable thing from your actions has happened. Sorry that was so long winded and half off topic but just throwing in my 2 cents and a little extra, lol.