Rutgers student commits suicide after cyber bullying

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Such a shame that kids who are gay feel that this is the only way out in a society that shuns them. Its embrassing to say the least, and not for the kids, but for us as a nation.
The roommate who video taped him was pulling a prank, but could probably not imagine the ramifications of what happened. Kids dont understand the power of technology and how it effects people. Stuff like this gets out of hand quickly.

They also shun themselves, by creating their own groups. I attended a school with 40k+ kids on our campus, and as you can imagine we had some homosexuals of both genders. There were ones who were openly gay, and went on with their lives, there were the "fairy princess" types, and there were the ones who hung out in their little clubs and pretended that no one likes them, and they said that we all secretly hate gays.
Most people that I knew in Penn State had the same opinion of all of them, and it was along the lines of "whatever floats your boat". Surely, that is not everyones opinion, but we don't burn gays, like the nazis burned jews, we don't lynch them like KKK did with blacks. A lot of them separate themselves from us and pretend that ALL of us hate them. Hell, a society gives a big advantage to a gay student when it comes to financial matters and school. You try having a scholarship for a white hetero dude..

Originally Posted by Frosty

I hope these kids have their ****ing lives ruined. I hope they get to see what's it's like to not have any privacy in jail. It's a damn disgrace. Our private lives are just that, private. It may not seem major but if this kid wasn't out and was still closted it's a big deal. To have something like that exposed is a huge. I had a friend that off'ed himself due to that reason...he couldn't deal with the rejection he thought he'd face. In the end our group of friends would not have cared...what someone does in their bedroom is no one's business. But when you hear people drop the fag word, when the stereotype is that every gay is some prancing priss it was too much for him to overcome. When you hear super religious and hypocritical sheep condemn you to hell it makes it tough. So Tsar, it's not black and white...however I agree with you that it's an impulse and usually the wrong decision.

This kid was too young to end his life, too young to have to go through what these ******** did. I hope they tie their action to his death in a legal manner.

And you seemed to reinforce my opinion with saying what HE THOUGHT would happen. He didn't care about what will actually happen, just him. Poor little guy, no one likes him - so let's make things easy on myself and just end it, right? Sorry, I'm not the most sensitive type. It's unfortunate that you lost someone, I feel bad for YOU, not for him. He made his decision.

P.S. When I said humorous I didn't actually sit here an laugh at the guy. It was more along with lines of "Um..dude you killed yourself over that? You dummy" <- I put it in the nicer language for the mods.

Another P.S. My best friend once told me this "You know what's a bad day around where we're from? You've lost your cell, and you're stuck home on a friday night with nothing to do. You know what's a bad day around here? You're 10, your parents were killed, you have no home and no where to go, and you have not had a proper meal in over a week". I can give you a few more examples of what's way worse then "being gay". Hell, I knew a war vet once, he was paralyzed from the neck down, and lived like that for 10+ years, I thought it was miserable existence, but he WANTED to go on. You want me to draw a comparison between this vets hard life and the life of a guy thought had it tough and had to off himself, because 3 people found out he was gay? There are tons of other things that are way worse out there.

But I agree, his stupidity is unfortunate for his family.

[BigAls87Z28]

Some people have stronger wills. I also think suicide only hurts the family and friends, but I would rather see people like this young man, who had a pretty decent life to that point, have support to go to.
Our generation and for the most part, people up here dont care about sexual preference, but America as a whole has a lot of hate for homosexuals. Some compare gay sex to terrorism. Its not like youre black or asian, where you cant hide it. These guys and gals have to hide something that they cannot control, and are constantly worried about what people will do or say about them.

[thor117]

i feel bad for the kid and for his family. i think that what his roommate did was stupid and wrong. I think the whole thing is unfortunate and there is nothing funny about it.
However, I personally think that suicide is the cowards way out. it the easy way out for you. it puts a huge burden on your family though, they will blame themselves and hold themselves responsible. and how about for the people who have to find them or deal with the body. suicide is for cowards and i forgot who said it on this forum but whoever said they were right, if you think it takes balls to willingly kill yourself it takes 10 times more to keep on living

[fmybody]

just wanna say that i dont find anything humorous about that

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

I read somewhere awhile back about people who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived. It was a small number, about only 26 or so. They all suffered internal injuries and broken bones. But when asked what was the last thing that went through their minds after they jumped, most of them said something to the extent of "What have I done." So whatever it was in their life that made them jump, once they were off that ledge, suddenly it did not matter and they knew they made a huge mistake. Just think about all the people who didn't survive and if that same thought went through their minds as well.

and as for this.. theres a documentory called "the bridge" it was on google videos when i watched it.. the whole thing.. they have actual footage of people jumping... the guy put a camera up for like 6 months or something and cought like 8 people jumping... crazyyy (and some getting saved.. its wild i recommend people watch it.. especially people who thinnk it was "humorous")

but the one kid survived and when they interviewed him... he said he changed is mind the instant it was too late to turn back..

[fmybody]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Another P.S. My best friend once told me this "You know what's a bad day around where we're from? You've lost your cell, and you're stuck home on a friday night with nothing to do. You know what's a bad day around here? You're 10, your parents were killed, you have no home and no where to go, and you have not had a proper meal in over a week". I can give you a few more examples of what's way worse then "being gay". .

i also wanna say that may be true however in countries or places like that.. you dont kill youself for being gay.. they kill you for being gay... just a thought...

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Some people have stronger wills. I also think suicide only hurts the family and friends, but I would rather see people like this young man, who had a pretty decent life to that point, have support to go to.
Our generation and for the most part, people up here dont care about sexual preference, but America as a whole has a lot of hate for homosexuals. Some compare gay sex to terrorism. Its not like youre black or asian, where you cant hide it. These guys and gals have to hide something that they cannot control, and are constantly worried about what people will do or say about them.

I think there are plenty of support options available, there's the suicide hotline, and gay community has plenty of "clubs" where you can talk about w/e bothers you. He didn't do any of those though, he just chose the easy way out for him, and now apparently I'm the douche because I spoke my mind and called him a sissy.

Originally Posted by fmybody

its wild i recommend people watch it.. especially people who thinnk it was "humorous")

but the one kid survived and when they interviewed him... he said he changed is mind the instant it was too late to turn back..

I'm guessing this is directed towards me. What do you suppose I will leave from this great movie? I have pretty close experience with suicide people.. My uncle tried to off himself, but that worthless human being even couldn't stab himself right.

Originally Posted by fmybody

i also wanna say that may be true however in countries or places like that.. you dont kill youself for being gay.. they kill you for being gay... just a thought...

It's not "may be true", it is true. Here's a though, when you think your life sucks, think about someone else who's life sucks more. Somewhere there's a kid tonight sleeping at the train station because he has no home. Somewhere there's a kid being sexually abused.. just because. Somewhere there's a woman being raped by bunch of "freedom fighters" just to prove a point. Somewhere there's another war vet lying down because he is paralyzed from the neck down and can't wipe his own ass. When I have a ****** day, I don't think about how my day sucked today, instead I think about the fact that in the great scheme of things my day was pretty damn wonderful. There are millions upon millions of people who would trade their ****** existence to be in our shoes.

As a side question, earlies last year there was a billionaire who offed himself because he lost his billionaire status and now only had several hundred million dollars left in his bank account, he lost something like 80% of this fortune but was still probably in the top 5% of the world when it comes to money rankings. He didn't think he could go on anymore, so he found the "courage/balls" to off himself.. Am I suppose to be feeling bad for him too?

And as I said before, I feel bad for this kids family, but he,or anyone who kills themselves, will never have any pity from me. But on the bright side, he didn't shoot up a school or anything like that, so way to go!

[fmybody]

you missed my point...however im no good at internet debate so ill just leave it as "i dont think its funny"

[Jersey Mike]

There were a ton of news stations here today, including CBS and MTV. I saw the commercial on MTV, with "Perez Hilton" talking about how this was hate against homosexuals and led to his suicide.
Excuse me? There's much more to this story. Now the media is involved, and you know that everything is going to get only more distorted and spun in a different direction.
Cue new MTV special on bullying/homosexuality/other-high-ratings-opportunity. (Anyone remember the "sexting" special last year? Yeah, those girls went to high school with 3 of my roommates. About 15% of what aired was factual. TV left a ton of details out in order to make their special work. The media are wolves that look for opportunity. Here we go again.)

Originally Posted by Frosty

I hope these kids have their ****ing lives ruined. I hope they get to see what's it's like to not have any privacy in jail.
...
I hope they tie their action to his death in a legal manner.
...
I still hope the other two get punished as bad as they possibly can be.

Frosty, normally I agree with you, but I can't believe people actually think this irrationally. There's a difference here, the kid willingly destroyed his own life, and ruined that of his families. He DID that. Now, if anyone thinks this video stream was the reason he killed himself, I'm sorry, but that person needs to take their sunglasses off. This kid's life sucked as a whole; he didn't have friends, he wasn't enjoying life, and I can guarantee you he had a laundry list of issues. *His life wasn't pleasant up until this happened. He didn't say, "Well, life was good, but now that 3-58 people in Davidson Hall know I bat for the other team, it's definitely better for me to be dead than alive."* F***. You. Transfer dorms, transfer schools, get counseling, talk to your Resident Adviser who lives ON-YOUR-FLOOR, you are in a position where you, literally, have hundreds of options. Did the other kid who was on video (his "guest-for-the-evening") off himself? no...? hmm... odd. The guest must be crazy I guess.

To WANT to have someone ruin SOMEONE ELSE'S lives is ridiculous. That is, to ruin these two kids' lives is ridiculous. Forever, they'll have this on their consciences--You don't forget people around you who die, especially not ones who you may have been their last contact before they died. One person's life is already f'ed, his family's is affected forever, these two kids' are affected forever--their education and reputations are blemished, that's putting it lightly. Why try to find fine print in the laws to f*** their lives up more? I'm not defending their actions, rather, I'm defending their futures. At this point, don't you think community service and letting them act on their own recognizance would be more rational and meaningful than just throwing them in a slammer & hitting them with hundreds of fines & penalties?
Their actions were likely meant to ruin someone's night/week/semester. You're talking about *consciously and directly* ruining two people's *lives* -- In this case, they're not asking to be pushed off a bridge, but you've got your hands on their backs and are trying to thrust them off.


My 2-cents.

[Frosty]

Sorry Mike, it's a touchy subject with me. I have friends from all walks of life and lifestyles and it's sad watching kids and even full blown adults struggle with that subject. If the kid had issues already it furthers my position. They saw an easy target, a loner, a kid with issues, a kid that wouldn't fight back. Would they have done that "prank" on a 6'5'' 250# football player who was popular? No. They were predators and picked on a kid who was supposedly down and out.

Yes, the kid chose to end his life, he chose to jump off that bridge but lets look at the factors that led up to him making that decision. Lets look at the final straw. The fact is we don't know if he was seeking help, we don't know if he was seeking counseling. It's a little absurd that these two jerk-offs should be absolved of any responsibility for this because the kid already had issues.

So you think this prank was just to ruin the kids night or weekend? Dude, c'mon. This was planned out and was meant to be completely malicious IMO. A prank is drawing on someone that passed out from being drunk, putting shaving cream in their hand and tickling their face....video taping someone having a sexual encounter with another male then streaming it to the internet is NOT just a prank. Again that's just my opinion.

I hope their mommy and daddies have a ton of money because there's going to be a huge civil suit coming too. Everyone is responsible for their actions and those actions have consequences. Maybe my stand on what their punishment should be is a bit harsh, maybe I AM speaking due to emotion but I just can't spin it to make what they did OK or even just a "little" bad. These kids did something huge and their actions led to something bigger, regardless if this other kid had issues or not.

[WiMiMc]

1. i'm sure if you asked both of the kids they would honestly say they didnt intend to push him to kill himself. not many people do. and i'm sure if they did it, and he wasnt gay, this wouldn't be such a big story.

2. like a few others have said, i believe he was selfish in taking his life. life goes on, and people have had, and have worse situations than he had. now his parents and family have to live with it. its Rutgers, i know theres at least one gay club, and many counselors to talk to

3. the 2 kid's that did it, well i suppose their parents should have taught them when enough is enough. as for the victim's parents? i think that they are somewhat at fault too. Parents are supposed to teach us and prepare us for the world, this includes having a fairly strong will, a tough hide (hyde?) because its a rough world.
also they apparently didnt provide an environment where he could tell them that he was gay. now i know its not always easy to tell parents things, i've been there.

4. i dont believe we should try to ruin these kid's life. i love how we live in a largely Christian culture and yet everyone wants to damn another for mistakes in their lives. They have a death on their conscious, along with some community service or having to go to a gay club for an amount of time i believe that would be enough. Someone mentioned how something similar happened and the bully was one of the people crying the most. remorse counts for nothing?

" One good deed is not enough to redeem a man of a lifetime of wickedness."
"Though it seems enough to condemn him."

when everyone wants to blame the monster, i'd rather look to Frankenstein and the village people for creating one

[Frosty]

lol, the parents of the kid that jumped off of the bridge are partly responsible? Community service is enough? Wow.

Everyone has their opinions but I just don't understand how people would be OK with a simple slap on the wrist.

We may be a predominately Christian nation but that still doesn't avoid proper punishment. To understand Christianity you need to know the Old Testament too(IMO) and well...God wasn't too nice back then lol.

Just to play Devil's advocate here...how do we know what's on their mind/conscious? They haven't been interviewed to my knowledge. They may only be remorseful because they got caught. Remember they tried doing this twice to the kid.

Maybe ruining their lives may be a bit harsh on my part and I'll admit that. However a simple slap on the wrist involving community service and talking to some gay group is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too minor. They could face up to 5yrs in jail, they BETTER see some of that.

[WiMiMc]

whether a person turns out great, has a great job, great life, or whether they become a murderer, you dont believe the parents have any responsibility, or role in the way they turned out?

edit: and frankly the 5 year jail sentence would be sufficient. my fault on not being clear, by ruining their lives i meant kicking them out of college AND not allowing them to enter in any other one, and well pretty much blacklisting them from doing anything in their life

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Frosty

lol, the parents of the kid that jumped off of the bridge are partly responsible? Community service is enough? Wow.

Everyone has their opinions but I just don't understand how people would be OK with a simple slap on the wrist.

We may be a predominately Christian nation but that still doesn't avoid proper punishment. To understand Christianity you need to know the Old Testament too(IMO) and well...God wasn't too nice back then lol.

Just to play Devil's advocate here...how do we know what's on their mind/conscious? They haven't been interviewed to my knowledge. They may only be remorseful because they got caught. Remember they tried doing this twice to the kid.

Maybe ruining their lives may be a bit harsh on my part and I'll admit that. However a simple slap on the wrist involving community service and talking to some gay group is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too minor. They could face up to 5yrs in jail, they BETTER see some of that.

Remember when fidgit passed out and everyone threw condoms on him, took pictures, and posted them on the internet for a laugh? There was a naked guy there too... What if fidget offed himself back in the day? Does everyone who attended the party get a life sentence now? Death penalty? Death by a gang bang? If you prosecute one for a prank, prosecute them ALL!

Maybe it's for the reasons like these why some schools don't allow hugs anymore..

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Frosty

lol, the parents of the kid that jumped off of the bridge are partly responsible? Community service is enough? Wow.

Everyone has their opinions but I just don't understand how people would be OK with a simple slap on the wrist.

We may be a predominately Christian nation but that still doesn't avoid proper punishment. To understand Christianity you need to know the Old Testament too(IMO) and well...God wasn't too nice back then lol.

Just to play Devil's advocate here...how do we know what's on their mind/conscious? They haven't been interviewed to my knowledge. They may only be remorseful because they got caught. Remember they tried doing this twice to the kid.

Maybe ruining their lives may be a bit harsh on my part and I'll admit that. However a simple slap on the wrist involving community service and talking to some gay group is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too minor. They could face up to 5yrs in jail, they BETTER see some of that.

I agree. They need some form of punishment. No, they didn't force him to jump off of the bridge however they did give him a strong mental push. Think of it like a dad who leaves a loaded gun on the table and then his kid accidentally shoots himself. Did he pull the trigger himself? No. But his reckless/carelessness helped make the incident happen. 5 years may be excessive though. That's enough to ruin a life, especially when it's someone at the age where they are trying to get their **** together.

And the two morons should have known something like their prank could backfire and end up burning them. Look at what happened to the Star Wars kid. I thought kids in college were supposed to know everything?

[WiMiMc]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Look at what happened to the Star Wars kid. I thought kids in college were supposed to know everything?

whats the story behind that?

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by WiMiMc

whether a person turns out great, has a great job, great life, or whether they become a murderer, you dont believe the parents have any responsibility, or role in the way they turned out?

edit: and frankly the 5 year jail sentence would be sufficient. my fault on not being clear, by ruining their lives i meant kicking them out of college AND not allowing them to enter in any other one, and well pretty much blacklisting them from doing anything in their life

Of course they have a role but to even hint they'd be partly to blame for their son having his privacy invaded and broadcasted over the internet is a bit of a stretch.

Tsar, covering some guy in condoms is nowhere near the magnitude of someone who is a closeted gay being taped having sex with another male then having it thrown on the internet....nowhere near the same.

You're stuck on this being a prank...and maybe that's where we differ....this wasn't a prank IMO...this was flat out being malicious.

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Of course they have a role but to even hint they'd be partly to blame for their son having his privacy invaded and broadcasted over the internet is a bit of a stretch.

Tsar, covering some guy in condoms is nowhere near the magnitude of someone who is a closeted gay being taped having sex with another male then having it thrown on the internet....nowhere near the same.

You're stuck on this being a prank...and maybe that's where we differ....this wasn't a prank IMO...this was flat out being malicious.

Matters not, in the context of "pushing over the edge to off himself" because no one liked him. Or will we have some 93 year old Judge who is gonna be the deciding factor in what's a bad prank, which one is ok, and which one I can do everyday? What if you draw a penis on some drunk and they off themselves because of some other weird issue? How many years in the slammer for that?

People can be "pushed" over the edge by different number of circumstance, do we prosecute everyone who does such action?

[WiMiMc]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Of course they have a role but to even hint they'd be partly to blame for their son having his privacy invaded and broadcasted over the internet is a bit of a stretch.

oh no no i didnt mean that they're to blame for that. i mean they are partially responsible for how he took it and reacted to it



"People can be "pushed" over the edge by different number of circumstance, do we prosecute everyone who does such action?"

that i agree, i mean we all see it everyday, how quickly people get pissed at the smallest things. i know those of us that work in retail have seen it. people flip out because of a price or a coupon not able to apply to a product.

road rage is another example

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Matters not, in the context of "pushing over the edge to off himself" because no one liked him. Or will we have some 93 year old Judge who is gonna be the deciding factor in what's a bad prank, which one is ok, and which one I can do everyday? What if you draw a penis on some drunk and they off themselves because of some other weird issue? How many years in the slammer for that?

People can be "pushed" over the edge by different number of circumstance, do we prosecute everyone who does such action?

If the victim decides to press charges and be an *******, I dunno? Probably whatever harassment gets you?

[FlyingDutchman]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Of course they have a role but to even hint they'd be partly to blame for their son having his privacy invaded and broadcasted over the internet is a bit of a stretch.

Tsar, covering some guy in condoms is nowhere near the magnitude of someone who is a closeted gay being taped having sex with another male then having it thrown on the internet....nowhere near the same.

You're stuck on this being a prank...and maybe that's where we differ....this wasn't a prank IMO...this was flat out being malicious.

I found nowhere where it says they had gay sex. According to the articles I found it was nowhere near that drastic.

Clementi, of Ridgewood, N.J., jumped from the bridge three days after his college roommate streamed live video on the internet of his dorm room makeout session with another man.

And there was no suicide note left behind or anything. In regards to his death we will never know the full story behind it, but the two kids are not responsible for tyler's actions.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Matters not, in the context of "pushing over the edge to off himself" because no one liked him. Or will we have some 93 year old Judge who is gonna be the deciding factor in what's a bad prank, which one is ok, and which one I can do everyday? What if you draw a penis on some drunk and they off themselves because of some other weird issue? How many years in the slammer for that?

People can be "pushed" over the edge by different number of circumstance, do we prosecute everyone who does such action?

I do see your point and understand what you're saying. At what point is the line drawn though between a prank and something criminal?

There have been a couple of posts here talking about how the kid had no friends and was a loner....what better target. It's probably safe to assume they knew this, they knew he wasn't all there and still did this anyway just to push that line even harder. We're going to agree to disagree on this being just a prank. I don't think it was, I look at it as being something bigger.

Originally Posted by WiMiMc

oh no no i didnt mean that they're to blame for that. i mean they are partially responsible for how he took it and reacted to it

I see what you mean but I've unfortunately been down that road and my parents raised me correctly. I know right from wrong. I had a drastic change in my life a few years ago and almost did something stupid. So I can relate to what the kid was thinking however I wasn't taking that way out of things...and it splits me down the middle inside. I know where people like that are coming from but I also know it's not the right answer(unless it's some extreme circumstance).

No amount of parenting can prepare you for that.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by 97camaro

I found nowhere where it says they had gay sex. According to the articles I found it was nowhere near that drastic.

Not sure what articles you're reading but it's in every one I've read.

Regardless if people think they're in some way responsible for his death they still broke some big laws and should be punished.

[WiMiMc]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I do see your point and understand what you're saying. At what point is the line drawn though between a prank and something criminal?



I see what you mean but I've unfortunately been down that road and my parents raised me correctly. I know right from wrong. I had a drastic change in my life a few years ago and almost did something stupid. So I can relate to what the kid was thinking however I wasn't taking that way out of things...and it splits me down the middle inside. I know where people like that are coming from but I also know it's not the right answer(unless it's some extreme circumstance).

No amount of parenting can prepare you for that.

yeah something like a prank is pretty much relative (minus the extremes) like speed, height, a long distance to run.

i know, in the way of major embarrassment and not knowing what to do, i've been there.

obviously this kid was unstable, if it wasn't these kids that pushed him over the edge, it would have been something else.

and on a side note, a few days or week before he jumped, he posted on a forum or something mentioning the matter, idk if anyone here has seen it

[Frosty]

Nah I didn't see that.

[WiMiMc]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Nah I didn't see that.

ahh found it

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/articl..._lnk3%7C174579

not much but its something