GM & Ford to move overseas?

[LS1LT1]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

It has nothing to do with pride.

You're right, pride has WAY too little to do with it, but it should.
I'm a firm believer in free trade (as long as it's also fair trade) and capitalism but I'm an even bigger supporter of SURVIVAL.
Survival of the nation that I live in.
Survival of it's economy.
And ultimately the survival of it's military strength (which IS also closely related to it's economic strength, ie: the vast tax dollars generated by an employed population).

Yes it is becoming a bit of a grey area as to what is truly a domestic product and what is not but I still believe that GM is GM and Ford is Ford.
Honda and Toyota are NOT domestic car companies, contrary to what many believe.
Yet the simple concept of pride and how it relates to vehicle purchases is still quite puzzling to me.
Make fun of someone's girlfriend/fiance/wife and a his pride will lash out at you.
Make fun of someone's favorite baseball/football team and that ol' sense of team spirit/pride kicks in and starts a fight.
But yet we have flocks of people buying vehicles from manufacturers based in other nations with government backed administrative policy that not only encourages but essentially forces it's consumers to flat out REFUSE to buy the vehicles produced by the manufacturers (GM, Ford etc.) based in YOUR OWN country.
And normally proud, honest, hard working American citizens (and some 'none citizens') think absolutely nothing about supporting that behavior?
Apparently no pride at all going on there.

I see it as similar to a scenario such as this: If a neighbor were to scream at your little brother/sister and kick them off their porch when they were trying to sell them some raffle tickets for school, would you still buy garden supplies/gasoline/groceries or whatever from his store the next time you went shopping?

[LS1LT1]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Most of GM's cars are still made in North America, and all its profits flow to Detroit, no matter where the cars are sold.
Now, the playing field is not level, as Japan can import anything the want into the US, but try having an American car company sell in Japan?
But make no mistake, outside of the Big 3, profits flow back to thier respective countires.

Very true.
And regardless of some of the 'good' that has come from the likes of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes etc having set up plants in the U.S. and employing Americans, the profits of those companies ALSO goes back their individual countries of origin.
They didn't set up shop here out of the 'goodness of their hearts' or their 'undying devotion to the U.S.' LOL...they did it (as any smart corporation would) to sell more vehicles here and make more MONEY for their own kids back home in Japan and Germany.

[CJDZ24_Z28]

Originally Posted by maroman88

good for them, dam unions f-in everything up. i hate my crappy union im in, i pay them like $10 a week for wat? lousy health benefits that ive never used, knock on wood.

You must be in a sh***y Union ran by Mickey Mouse. I pay $78-$90.00 depending on how many hours a week for my Benefits but that includes Full dental,Chiropractor visits,free emergency room visits,no co-pay prescriptions etc. Please tell me what Union this is? Im sure others here that are in labor Unions will tell you how good they are especially in NJ/NY

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by CJDZ24_Z28

You must be in a sh***y Union ran by Mickey Mouse. I pay $78-$90.00 depending on how many hours a week for my Benefits but that includes Full dental,Chiropractor visits,free emergency room visits,no co-pay prescriptions etc. Please tell me what Union this is? Im sure others here that are in labor Unions will tell you how good they are especially in NJ/NY

I'm guessing he works for ShopRite or something like that - any type of manual labor union (carpentry, plumbing, electrical, etc) would be yanking way more money from him.

- Justin

[firehawk1120]

Blame the unions for making it hard to run a company anymore. They demand lower hours worked at higher rates of pay plus better health care, and you can almost never get fired. (teachers for example) The high cost of doing business with a union is why my family business is small and my uncle only purchases material from U.S. suppliers and U.S. Tools unless absolutely necessary.

As for the real estate market comment and unemployment rates I tend to disagree. People can get jobs there are places in this country overflowing with job opportunities, but those jobs might not be what the people used to make so they would rather make nothing then something and alter their living. If you can't find a job after 6 months of living on unemployment you aren't REALLY looking. And the 93% increase in foreclosures is highly related to corrupt mortgage companies preying on people with poor education and bad english. They didn't explain what the programs were and people were just too happy to be able to afford a home. It is also rampant in areas where the major employment came from one industry like detroit and now there are more abandon homes then ever, but some areas like the NE are still very strong areas as far as home sales are concerned.

[Predator86]

Lets not flame all unions here....my dad been in a steam fitters union since he left highschool (i forgot what local #) theyre very hard workers and still under apreciated.

I almost joined with him but i decided to pursue mechanics

[jims69camaro]

so, to get back to the original post, yes GM & Ferd have had a presence overseas for quite some time. however, for them to yank anchor and bail from US soil is probably something that would never happen. they are very crafty in that they are using the loopholes in the trade agreements with other countries to sneak their product in the back door. i just don't see them moving ALL operations overseas or in Mexico/Canada.

the unions make it more difficult for a company to make a profit. these days, all your shareholders want to know about is how much the stock is going up or how much that dividend check is for. so, the upper management is constantly harping on the bottom line, which makes it difficult for middle and lower management to get their jobs done at the profit level UM has set for them. they can't lower the bar, either, because then someone, somewhere will start to slack off and end up costing the company money instead of using the buffer to their advantage.

it's still a very depressing thought that the japs have more than 50% of the US automobile market share. this is what ambivalence and downright ignorance has cost us, not to mention those that still think that japan makes a better product than the US - it's just not true anymore.

when people found out that the japs were buying US real estate, they just shrugged their shoulders. meanwhile, the japs are renting that space back to US companies - is that a shrewd move, or what? but since it doesn't impact them on a personal level, people could care less. all of this time the economy has been eroded to the point that it may not be salvagable.

truth be told, i can't wait to get out of here. i'll go sit in a third world country and watch the US deteriorate from afar.

[LS1Hawk]

Seriously, we're reaching a point where there's going to be no semblance of America left in this country. And it will be the same people who uphold all these foreign companies that when the day comes they will start screaming "How did this happen?!"

[jims69camaro]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

"How did this happen?!"

QFT.

[NJSPEEDER]

Originally Posted by jims69camaro

the unions make it more difficult for a company to make a profit. these days, all your shareholders want to know about is how much the stock is going up or how much that dividend check is for. so, the upper management is constantly harping on the bottom line, which makes it difficult for middle and lower management to get their jobs done at the profit level UM has set for them. they can't lower the bar, either, because then someone, somewhere will start to slack off and end up costing the company money instead of using the buffer to their advantage.

this is exactly why so many companies have started following GM's lead and marketing world platforms under different, market specific, brand names. it works to the consumer's benefit as well as that of the parent company when the costs and quality that will later determine the price and warranty are controlled at one location instead of spread out all over the world.
GM isn't run by fools. they will find ways around as many costs as they can while still putting out desireable vehicles at reasonable prices.
the problem rests largely with the image side of the equation that has been mentioned several times but not really followed through on. it is more than jsut who made junk in 1985, it is about prouct placement, and advertising. GM lost their way in the 90's and is only now getting the ship pointed back in teh right direction as far as letting the public know the what, where, and how much of the prducts they offer.
.