Found the fuel problem... - Page 2 - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

Blacdout96 · 11-11-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar0ck

The Zip tie that was their originally is what came with the kit.

Are you serious!!?? wow, yeah talk abotu cheap, its like those AFR heads, great heads but come wiht cheap rocker studs. stil, a clamp should help holding that better then some plastic zip tie.

Teds89IROC · 11-11-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Are you serious!!?? wow, yeah talk abotu cheap, its like those AFR heads, great heads but come wiht cheap rocker studs. stil, a clamp should help holding that better then some plastic zip tie.

yea, we used metal hose clamps, so that pump should't go anywhere. Also, those compression fittings I got are good to about 200psi so they are more than fine for my use. Pics to come shortly...

Teds89IROC · 11-11-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kat

It isn't worth my time to even write a respons about how that is a hack... *grumbles about spending too much money on AN stuff for my fuel system to make sure it doesnt leak and safe!*

Anyways, the sending unit is screwed up. Its missing a part at athe bottom that holds the fuel pump in place. When I get home I have a pic of mine and I'll show ya what I mean.

the walbro unit wouldn't fit with the stock piece that was at the bottom of the assembly, which is why the kit came with zip ties (now replaced with metal hose clamps) The pump itself is cradled in that "C" shape and secured to it while the rubber hose goes straight up to the feed line.

Blacdout96 · 11-11-2007, 11:01 AM

yeah you shouldnt have problem wiht the fittings, it is only with high high pressure and sudden increase in pressure is when they'd have a problem. I used to have people come in and buy them when I worked at advance, I told them not to use them , but noone wants to listen to the guy thats been behind the counter for 2 years. I had one guy come in and say, yeah im fixing the brake lines on my sons car, what size compression fittings do I ned for his car. I told him not to use them and he said and I quote: well Im in the pipe fitters union, so I know what im doing and what they're used for, and they will work. I said whatever im not going to sell them to you, so he went over to the next register and he sold them. I wasent there too long after to have the guy come back and tell me his sons brake line exploded after he jammed on the pedal cause some *** pulled out in front ( im not saying it did happen, but i was waiting for him to say that to me)

Kat · 11-11-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teds89IROC

the walbro unit wouldn't fit with the stock piece that was at the bottom of the assembly, which is why the kit came with zip ties (now replaced with metal hose clamps) The pump itself is cradled in that "C" shape and secured to it while the rubber hose goes straight up to the feed line.

Hrmm I dont remember having a problem installing the Walboro pump in the few cars that I've done with the clip down at the bottom. thats odd ya had a problem with that.

Teds89IROC · 11-11-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kat

Hrmm I dont remember having a problem installing the Walboro pump in the few cars that I've done with the clip down at the bottom. thats odd ya had a problem with that.

yea I dunno, unless some previous owner used a different pump or something

JL8Jeff · 11-11-2007, 05:03 PM

I know my old 86-88 Toyota 4Runners had an access panel under the passenger side rear seat floor. It was just sheetmetal bolts/screws holding the panel in place with weatherstripping to seal out water and vapors. The tank sending unit/fuel pump was accessed through that. I don't think there is anything wrong with the access panel, it's just the method used to create the access. Gas isn't dangerous, gas vapors are. It's good to see you found the problem.

BonzoHansen · 11-11-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

I know my old 86-88 Toyota 4Runners had an access panel under the passenger side rear seat floor. It was just sheetmetal bolts/screws holding the panel in place with weatherstripping to seal out water and vapors. The tank sending unit/fuel pump was accessed through that. I don't think there is anything wrong with the access panel, it's just the method used to create the access. Gas isn't dangerous, gas vapors are. It's good to see you found the problem.

Floor pans are a bigger part of the structure in a uni-body car. I have no idea how much stress is involved at that spot, if any. The example shown of the damaged one appers to be rotted so maybe that is not a good example. But I don't think it is a big deal either. I'd still do an access if I had a car like that. Maybe if the tank was out one could tack a frame around the hole to strengthen it.

Tru2Chevy · 11-11-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Floor pans are a bigger part of the structure in a uni-body car. I have no idea how much stress is involved at that spot, if any. The example shown of the damaged one appers to be rotted so maybe that is not a good example. But I don't think it is a big deal either. I'd still do an access if I had a car like that. Maybe if the tank was out one could tack a frame around the hole to strengthen it.

That's what many on TGO were saying. In order to do the access panel *right* you should drop the tank, make your cuts, build/install a real door with hinges or whatever, then convert to AN fittings for safety.

- Justin

BonzoHansen · 11-11-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

That's what many on TGO were saying. In order to do the access panel *right* you should drop the tank, make your cuts, build/install a real door with hinges or whatever, then convert to AN fittings for safety.

- Justin

That is what I would do.

WildBillyT · 11-11-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

yeah you shouldnt have problem wiht the fittings, it is only with high high pressure and sudden increase in pressure is when they'd have a problem. I used to have people come in and buy them when I worked at advance, I told them not to use them , but noone wants to listen to the guy thats been behind the counter for 2 years. I had one guy come in and say, yeah im fixing the brake lines on my sons car, what size compression fittings do I ned for his car. I told him not to use them and he said and I quote: well Im in the pipe fitters union, so I know what im doing and what they're used for, and they will work. I said whatever im not going to sell them to you, so he went over to the next register and he sold them. I wasent there too long after to have the guy come back and tell me his sons brake line exploded after he jammed on the pedal cause some *** pulled out in front ( im not saying it did happen, but i was waiting for him to say that to me)

It is illegal to sell or install compression fittings for brake lines. You were smart to deny them to him. Your co-worker is lucky that the guys son didn't hurt or kill himself or someone else or your store would be in very deep ****.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Are you serious!!?? wow, yeah talk abotu cheap, its like those AFR heads, great heads but come wiht cheap rocker studs. stil, a clamp should help holding that better then some plastic zip tie.

FYI Energy Suspension gave me zip ties with my clamshell poly motor mounts, to zip tie them together. Yeah, I welded them shut.

Did you guys remember to square off the tubing after you cut it? A tubing cutter will leave radiused edges that will hinder flow.

its Jeanne-Marie · 11-11-2007, 08:21 PM

we actually cut them with a small hand-held hack saw. we filed any rough edges and made everything smooth before we put the fittings on.

- Ted

Teds89IROC · 11-12-2007, 06:32 PM

Here's the hole and fittings:

There is still a good lip around the perimeter so it still is very rigid. I put touch up paint on any bare metal to avoid rust and wednesday I will be able to seal it off with some sealer, a metal panel, and self tapping machine screws. Using the screws around the perimeter of the panel will be more than enough to "keep things together" as cutting this little section out didn't cause any flexing or distortion. I'll post pics of it all sealed up when I get it done.

GP99GT · 11-12-2007, 06:43 PM

i'd run it before you go and seal it up and make sure nothing leaks

Teds89IROC · 11-12-2007, 06:54 PM

yup. Before me and Alex took it for a ride Saturday night we checked it all over (filter and fittings too) with it running and I took the car today to get gas and a little 15 minute ride and everything is still fine.

426 Wedge · 11-18-2007, 05:56 AM

This is a little off topic but related. That looks like a pretty big piece of sheet metal you cut out. Maybe 5 or 10% or more of the total area. This might be a stupid point, but, will the trunk area be stucturally weak and have more tendancy to twist or buckle now that there is a BIG HOLE there? Maybe that's why GM decieded not to put a access panel there. FWIW. Oh yea, one more thing. Do you think it would add to the rattling problem with these cars?? I'm a noob here and maybe this was discused in previous threads.

Fast92RS · 11-18-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 426 Wedge

This is a little off topic but related. That looks like a pretty big piece of sheet metal you cut out. Maybe 5 or 10% or more of the total area. This might be a stupid point, but, will the trunk area be stucturally weak and have more tendancy to twist or buckle now that there is a BIG HOLE there? Maybe that's why GM decieded not to put a access panel there. FWIW. Oh yea, one more thing. Do you think it would add to the rattling problem with these cars?? I'm a noob here and maybe this was discused in previous threads.

Yeah that all was discussed on TGO I posted a link prviously. Only time will tell if any structrual issues occur. it all could be a matter of how the car is driven and Im sure Subframe connectors probably will play a roll in the cars that have them with this kind of acces panel and with the cars that do not have sfc.

Blacdout96 · 11-18-2007, 08:53 AM

I think in the long run it will become twisted, maybe not to the naked eye, but on a laser machine it would be found. You do have to remember that the shocks come up thru theback there, so pressure will be applied to that area, I think thats why they corrogated the sheetmetal to give it strength. Forces will always act over the whole body all the time while driving and yes even when sitting. so warpage will take place over tiem, adn somethign like this will increase the time it takes to warp. and it would rattle, god only knows where all my damn rattles coem from, but they said they're going to put wweather stripping to keep out crap and vapors, and to prevent it from rattling, but yeah, idk, fuel pumps in these cars are a ***** to replace.

426 Wedge · 11-18-2007, 09:38 AM

I would rather do it the right way or not at all. This includes all the suffering to do it right!! LOL

Blacdout96 · 11-18-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 426 Wedge

I would rather do it the right way or not at all. This includes all the suffering to do it right!! LOL

Thats what I said, ill take the long route to ensure that I odnt have problems in the long run. if it came from the factory like that, keep it hat way.

JL8Jeff · 11-18-2007, 10:41 AM

I don't think it will cause any future strength problems. The real strength is actually in the ribbed area that goes outside that hole.

426 Wedge · 11-18-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

I don't think it will cause any future strength problems. The real strength is actually in the ribbed area that goes outside that hole.

You got a big hole on the top (hatch) and now a 5-10+% hole on the bottom.
You now have a hole straight through the car.

its Jeanne-Marie · 11-18-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

I don't think it will cause any future strength problems. The real strength is actually in the ribbed area that goes outside that hole.

exactly. and if you look to the right of where this hatch area is, there is more sheet metal structure underneath it. I would love to see someone take measurements of my car in 3 years and show me how this 10x7 hole caused my car to twist

Ted

ar0ck · 11-18-2007, 03:08 PM

Why is this topic still popping up. Its fixed it runs and it was done properly. This was not a hack job. We did our homework, took all the right steps.

nj96z28 · 11-18-2007, 03:14 PM

Wow. People really get their panties in a bunch over this. I posted in LS1tech.com about doing my traapdoor on my 96 vert and 2 guys went ballsitic on me. Posted here and nobody said a word lol. Anyway I chose trapdoor method because i dont have floorjacks or jackstands (just a set of oil change ramps lol) nor the money to pay a shop to do it . I did the cutout and install over a 2 day period and havent had any problems. i still have the trapdoor open as I havent decided what to do as far as sealing and the car gets driven like once a week seeing as how im unemployed. The vertible body has a support ridge beam welded in at the cabin side of the sheet metal so there will definately not be any buckling , its not liek im gonan be racing the thing around corners anyway. Oh well , to each tehir own when it comes to opinions.