lots of vette ZR1 news

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Featherburner

True....but I like the way he thinks.

Absolutely. Greed, for lack of a better term, is good.




Will the ZR1 be a 1-year wonder?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22340556/

[NightRydaSS]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Absolutely. Greed, for lack of a better term, is good.




Will the ZR1 be a 1-year wonder?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22340556/

sun-of-a....

[NightRydaSS]

damn tree huggers

[NightRydaSS]

they said that car might go for arounf $100K; yea until that "adjusted for market value" "Tax" gets applied. The GT500 was supposed to be; what $45K , and it was going for like $65K? The Ford GT's MSRP was $150K and it was going for like $250K. So if the tree huggers don't eff things up, that b/s will.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by NightRydaSS

they said that car might go for arounf $100K; yea until that "adjusted for market value" "Tax" gets applied. The GT500 was supposed to be; what $45K , and it was going for like $65K? The Ford GT's MSRP was $150K and it was going for like $250K. So if the tree huggers don't eff things up, that b/s will.

No, when cars get to the $100k area, a dealer tack-on $20k is no deterrent. They won't make that many anyway - short supply will keep $$ up. This is as much PR as anything. Much different from dealers adding $5-$10k to a solstice or the upcoming camaro - cars meant for the (more or less) masses. That is bad.

[Frosty]

About the price. This car is NOT targeted for some of the people that can afford a $40-50K vette. This car is targeted for the people looking to spend $250K+ on a supercar. Of course we haven't seen a lot of actual real world testing but if the looks and specs perform as they should this will put GM back on the map in the high end car world. This car is shaping up to outperform cars costing 3 times as much.

A big FU to the Europeans

I didn't think that was a window, I thought it was for the intercooler fins. I'm not really digging the window, if they're going to give it a Ferrari type look then make the window bigger.

[nj96z28]

i was waiting till 2012 to buy new camaro...now i buy new zr1 for double the price...... im druuuunk

(2012--give em some time to work out the bugs)

[NightRydaSS]

well i guess ill just continue to work on my "backyard super car"

[chrisfrom nj]

looks good

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by NightRydaSS

they said that car might go for arounf $100K; yea until that "adjusted for market value" "Tax" gets applied. The GT500 was supposed to be; what $45K , and it was going for like $65K? The Ford GT's MSRP was $150K and it was going for like $250K. So if the tree huggers don't eff things up, that b/s will.

The Ford GT was built out to be a $90k car. But Bill Ford jr. wanted it to be in Ferrari's market and to somehow beat Ferrari, so he increased the MSRP to $140k. Then Ford decided to do holdbacks on the car and only offer dealerships limited numbers to limit supply on a high demand. Then the dealerships in order to screw the customers as much as possible, raised the price of the car to around 170-200k. So, with each car sold, the dealership was profiting anywhere from $35k to $70k on each car, and Ford, since the build cost was so low on the car already, was profiting over $50k per car. Why anyone would buy a car over MSRP is beyond me. They're already marked up 4-8k to begin with. I'm sure GM will do the same thing and morons will be buying a 100k car for 150k or more. The problem is that theres no regulation. Further b/s is the gas guzzler tax. Somehow it only applies to sports cars, and not gas guzzling trucks. What makes it even more stupid is that the government taxes the manufacturer that makes the car, not the consumer for buying it, but the manufacturer doesnt want to pay it, so they pass that bill off to the dealership, and they sure as heck arent paying it, so they in turn slap it on the window sticker. Uncle Sam wants to get paid, so guess whos paying that bill.

[NightRydaSS]

yea, you buy a car for $50K more then it is MSRP'd for and guess what the insurance company does to u when you need a claim. Or; if you decide to sell the car you have to eat that markup.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by NightRydaSS

yea, you buy a car for $50K more then it is MSRP'd for and guess what the insurance company does to u when you need a claim. Or; if you decide to sell the car you have to eat that markup.

Oh to have the problems of the rich man, LOL

[1972LT1]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Zoinks!

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/hot...ls9/index.html

Look at that dyno sheet....2 words for you Dodge.....SUCK IT!!!!

[SteveR]

thats a nice looking motor! Two things immediately come to mind, first, those exhaust manifolds look like they probably flow pretty good, and it might be a real PITA to change plugs on that

[1972LT1]

Originally Posted by SteveR

The Ford GT was built out to be a $90k car. But Bill Ford jr. wanted it to be in Ferrari's market and to somehow beat Ferrari, so he increased the MSRP to $140k. Then Ford decided to do holdbacks on the car and only offer dealerships limited numbers to limit supply on a high demand. Then the dealerships in order to screw the customers as much as possible, raised the price of the car to around 170-200k. So, with each car sold, the dealership was profiting anywhere from $35k to $70k on each car, and Ford, since the build cost was so low on the car already, was profiting over $50k per car. Why anyone would buy a car over MSRP is beyond me. They're already marked up 4-8k to begin with. I'm sure GM will do the same thing and morons will be buying a 100k car for 150k or more. The problem is that theres no regulation. Further b/s is the gas guzzler tax. Somehow it only applies to sports cars, and not gas guzzling trucks. What makes it even more stupid is that the government taxes the manufacturer that makes the car, not the consumer for buying it, but the manufacturer doesnt want to pay it, so they pass that bill off to the dealership, and they sure as heck arent paying it, so they in turn slap it on the window sticker. Uncle Sam wants to get paid, so guess whos paying that bill.

Totaly true. The MSRP might be 90k for the ZR1,but the dealers might ask 110k and theres nothing GM can do about it' otherwise they violate anti-trust laws. Thats why I'm worried @ the Camaro, GTO, G8, and Monte Carlo. For example...GM needs to produce 80-100k v6 and v8 Camaros per year to keep the line running. GM can tell dealers that,but they can't tell them what to sell them for. Weather a car keeps going is up to the dealers greed.

[NightRydaSS]

Originally Posted by 1972LT1

Totaly true. The MSRP might be 90k for the ZR1,but the dealers might ask 110k and theres nothing GM can do about it' otherwise they violate anti-trust laws. Thats why I'm worried @ the Camaro, GTO, G8, and Monte Carlo. For example...GM needs to produce 80-100k v6 and v8 Camaros per year to keep the line running. GM can tell dealers that,but they can't tell them what to sell them for. Weather a car keeps going is up to the dealers greed.

anti-trust laws. i don't understand, it is GM's product

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by NightRydaSS

anti-trust laws. i don't understand, it is GM's product

Yeah, they make Saturn a no haggle thing......

Should say, I dont understand either

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by NightRydaSS

anti-trust laws. i don't understand, it is GM's product

IIRC, price fixing comes under anti-trust laws. MSRP = Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Pricing. If GM forced the dealers all to have the same price (goes for lower as well as higher) that is considered price fixing. Maybe one of our lawyers will chiime in.

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

IIRC, price fixing comes under anti-trust laws. MSRP = Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Pricing. If GM forced the dealers all to have the same price (goes for lower as well as higher) that is considered price fixing. Maybe one of our lawyers will chiime in.

Then how do they get away with it at Saturn dealerships?

- Justin

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Frosty

About the price. This car is NOT targeted for some of the people that can afford a $40-50K vette. This car is targeted for the people looking to spend $250K+ on a supercar. Of course we haven't seen a lot of actual real world testing but if the looks and specs perform as they should this will put GM back on the map in the high end car world. This car is shaping up to outperform cars costing 3 times as much.

A big FU to the Europeans

Bingo. Its designed and equiped to match supercars on power and equipment for 1/2 the price. And it does.

Originally Posted by SteveR

The Ford GT was built out to be a $90k car. But Bill Ford jr. wanted it to be in Ferrari's market and to somehow beat Ferrari, so he increased the MSRP to $140k. Then Ford decided to do holdbacks on the car and only offer dealerships limited numbers to limit supply on a high demand.

The GT was always going to be a high dollar, super low volume niche car.

Then the dealerships in order to screw the customers as much as possible, raised the price of the car to around 170-200k.

Whos screwing who? Its the law of supply and demand. Ferrari's dont go for sticker. Neither do lambos or any other high end super car. Lots of people spend a lot of money to get them. Hell, to buy a Ferrari, you have to have had one already just to get on a list! They practicly force you to buy a used one first, and to get on a list, the wait is 2-3 years depending on the car. The 599 is up to 4 years now I think. The only car that you can get for sticker and less then 6 months is the 612.

I'm sure GM will do the same thing and morons will be buying a 100k car for 150k or more.

GM has zero control over what dealers charge.

The problem is that theres no regulation.

There is regulation, the regulation is that GM cannot price fix the car by forcing dealers to make people pay that price. It is illegal.

Further b/s is the gas guzzler tax. Somehow it only applies to sports cars, and not gas guzzling trucks.

Trucks and Cars are classified differently by the EPA. Trucks have a much lower CAFE score then cars do. What was awesome about the Z06 is that it made 505hp, and no gas tax untill the EPA reformulated and lowerd the Z06's mpg.

Originally Posted by 1972LT1

Totaly true. The MSRP might be 90k for the ZR1,but the dealers might ask 110k and theres nothing GM can do about it' otherwise they violate anti-trust laws. Thats why I'm worried @ the Camaro, GTO, G8, and Monte Carlo. For example...GM needs to produce 80-100k v6 and v8 Camaros per year to keep the line running. GM can tell dealers that,but they can't tell them what to sell them for. Weather a car keeps going is up to the dealers greed.

Correct, GM cannot tell dealers what to sell the car at. They can suggest, but not force.
Will the Camaro have major price gouging when it comes out? You can bet on it. Can GM avoid this? They sure can do some things about it like limit number of cars allowed to be sent to the dealer.
Pontiac has not learned its lesson and will gouge the G8 GT and the G8 ST when it comes out. They had GTO's, they adjusted price near 40k, and they sat on lots.
Solstice, got adjusted prices over 30k. They kept selling, but now have a 120 day supply as supposed to the Sky which is at 50 or so.
And Monte Carlo? MC is dead.

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

IIRC, price fixing comes under anti-trust laws. MSRP = Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Pricing. If GM forced the dealers all to have the same price (goes for lower as well as higher) that is considered price fixing. Maybe one of our lawyers will chiime in.

Exactly

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

Then how do they get away with it at Saturn dealerships?

- Justin

Saturn as well as Scion dealers skate around it some how, and I forget. They do have to sign a contract when they open up a new franchise that they will stick to MSRP.
I dont think I have ever seen any market adjustments on a Sky or anything like that. There have been reports of some on the internet, but none around here.

[1972LT1]

AL I thought Chevy had the Camaro & Monte and Pontiac had the G8 and GTO so there wouldn't be competition....ie ('Bird vs Camaro). What does Chevy have? If it's a v8 Lumina;Cavalier;Cobalt or Malibu I want one!!!!!!

[Jersey_TA]

MMMMMM I want one 8)

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by 1972LT1

AL I thought Chevy had the Camaro & Monte and Pontiac had the G8 and GTO so there wouldn't be competition....ie ('Bird vs Camaro). What does Chevy have? If it's a v8 Lumina;Cavalier;Cobalt or Malibu I want one!!!!!!

Monte is dead as of this past model year. The Monte, current Impala, Grand Prix, and LaCrosse are all built at the Oshawa plants, which are slowly being turned into the future home of Camaro.

Monte is dead. GTO is still 50/50 right now. Holden might want to invest more into the new upcoming Alpha platform, and with all the new EPA regulations, a lighter and smaller RWD platform will help GM to get those numbers. Alpha will be used by Pontiac mostly, Caddy will get a small 3 series sedan/coupe, and possible other divisions across the globe. Alpha could also spawn 6th gen Camaro.

[maroman88]

Originally Posted by 1972LT1

AL I thought Chevy had the Camaro & Monte and Pontiac had the G8 and GTO so there wouldn't be competition....ie ('Bird vs Camaro). What does Chevy have? If it's a v8 Lumina;Cavalier;Cobalt or Malibu I want one!!!!!!

there hasnt been a lumina or cavy in yeeeaaarrss

[qwikz28]

Originally Posted by maroman88

there hasnt been a lumina or cavy in yeeeaaarrss

theres a lumina overseas. its coming here soon too! its called the G8!