I need a job!

[Masonite]

I think you've lost all credibility from your first post for this thread, but that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by ryanfx

***Puts on flame suit***

Okay, let's play ball.

Originally Posted by ryanfx

so no offence... but I completely disagree with this. If you come out of college with a bachelors there is absolutely no reason to accept a job for less than 40k, even with some less desired degrees like history. You'll be hurting yourself doing something like this.

Originally Posted by ryanfx

The way I figure it, accepting a job with such a low salary you are shooting yourself in the foot when attempting to negotiate a salary of a long term career; notice I did not say job.

No?

Originally Posted by ryanfx

If you want to work for 20k for a few years and get a full time job making 35k because they KNOW you will take it, then by all means, go for it. I would sooner spend 6 months finding a job that makes 35k than take a job that pays 20k.

Blah blah blah... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Brendan713 only 17 or 18 years old? We're not talking salaries for him right now; we're talking wages.

Originally Posted by ryanfx

As far as leads go for jobs? I have tons.

Leads != guaranteed jobs. I had a guaranteed career, but when I went to apply after I graduated, "Sorry, we don't have the money to hire you."

Originally Posted by ryanfx

This is under the assumption that you have experience similar to mine however. I graduated with a B.S in computer science and information systems, have experience in computer forensics, and am going for my Masters in cyber security. I'm not saying I have tons of work experience, because I don't, but there are positions that I could take, mostly because of the fact that I am willing to relocate for them.

My specialization is under the same category, with more field experience in Computer Forensics.

Originally Posted by ryanfx

A large portion of people looking for jobs are going about it the wrong way. Going on monster.com is pretty much the worst way that you can do this. One needs to be proactive regarding job searches as I have seen many people doing on this board. Actively calling companies, firms, and businesses looking for openings that haven't been posted. Keeping in touch with HR reps and working up a reputation with people within a company. Most of the time it's who you know, not what you know (sad, I know).

Regardless of being proactive, assertive, or simply browsing careerbuilder.com or monster.com or what have you, you're neglecting the fact that the economy is practically in shambles, and there are literally millions of people taking every route in search of income. As far as "it's who you know, not what you know", you have to know the WHAT and HOW to gain the attention of WHO.

Originally Posted by ryanfx

I've been looking for a job for this summer and I am having a much more difficult time finding one than previous years. Fewer people are giving work and at a lesser rate. I've gone a few months now without a bite. This doesn't change the fact that I am rotating my contacts every day and doing everything in my power to get one.

Why the flip-flop here? You all of a sudden went from "oh it's just too easy to get a job with a degree on your wall, like me" to "hell, I can't find ****!"

Originally Posted by ryanfx

I completely understand with this economy however finding a niche is the best way to get a job right now. At the moment getting "just a job" is extremely difficult because everyone is scrambling for one. Everyone is willing to do more work for less money than the person next door. Find something unique, file for unemployment, get training or education on that topic, and exploit the fact that you are one of the few people who know how to do it. I don't care if you learn japanese so you can stock the japanese shelves at the current super market you are at. You will be the only, if not one of two people that they have that can do that, and sooner or later guess what - you are a commodity. Your position, and salary will reflect that.

People are "scrambling for just a job" right now because most of those people were laid off from their careers. Excuse us for taking what we can get.

Originally Posted by ryanfx

This is not me preaching or even recommendations for what you all should do since everyone is different, but I don't feel that my previous statements were that far fetched.

They really were that far-fetched.


Why am I calling you out? Because I'm offended, which isn't easy to do. Like many, many people, including a handful on these very forums, I've had to settle for something in the complete opposite direction of my intended career, both category- and salary-wise. I'm not one to sell myself short, nor am I short on experience, knowledge, and the proof of both, but I had busted my ass for months in what seemed to be a dead-end supermarket deal before luck swung my way and somebody in management said "oh, gee, he knows a thing or two about computers", which landed me a *decent* position within the company.

Well, now I feel better. Enough of the ignorance, please. I need to go to bed because, fortunately for myself, I have work in the morning. To end this reply, I'm going to swing the pendulum back in the right direction of the thread's topic...

Brendan713, check out wholefoodsmarket.com. There may be some job listings in a few stores near you... I believe the closest one is Rose City, Madison, NJ or Millburn. Good luck, kid.

[ryanfx]

Originally Posted by Masonite

Blah blah blah... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Brendan713 only 17 or 18 years old? We're not talking salaries for him right now; we're talking wages.

Then that's completely different. I don't know ages. I was under the impression that this was a legit post-educational job.

Originally Posted by Masonite

My specialization is under the same category, with more field experience in Computer Forensics.

Good for you - it's a great field to be in.

Originally Posted by Masonite

Regardless of being proactive, assertive, or simply browsing careerbuilder.com or monster.com or what have you, you're neglecting the fact that the economy is practically in shambles, and there are literally millions of people taking every route in search of income. As far as "it's who you know, not what you know", you have to know the WHAT and HOW to gain the attention of WHO.

Unfortunately a lot of the time that's not true at all. Knowing the right person can most times, net you a job, pending you have the fundamental skills they need. Companies want to see potential for future growth (ie. word of mouth recommendation) , not immediate gratification that you have the exact credentials they need.

Originally Posted by Masonite

Why the flip-flop here? You all of a sudden went from "oh it's just too easy to get a job with a degree on your wall, like me" to "hell, I can't find ****!"

People are "scrambling for just a job" right now because most of those people were laid off from their careers. Excuse us for taking what we can get.

I NEVER said it was easy to get a job with a degree on your wall. I was reiterating that even WITH degrees, it is difficult. If I wanted *A* job I could have one, but it doesn't mean it's the job I want.

Again, the terms job and career seem to be getting crossed. I'm saying that accepting a low paying job can hurt your career as opposed to filing for unemployment and searching for something more reasonable. Disagree with me if you want, I don't really care, it's my opinion. NOTHING I said was offensive. If you NEED a job to live, go get one, if you can wait to ensure you protect your future, wait.

Originally Posted by Masonite

Why am I calling you out? Because I'm offended, which isn't easy to do. Like many, many people, including a handful on these very forums, I've had to settle for something in the complete opposite direction of my intended career, both category- and salary-wise. I'm not one to sell myself short, nor am I short on experience, knowledge, and the proof of both, but I had busted my ass for months in what seemed to be a dead-end supermarket deal before luck swung my way and somebody in management said "oh, gee, he knows a thing or two about computers", which landed me a *decent* position within the company.

I never meant to offend anyone, including yourself. I was simply giving my professional opinion of what the best thing to do was for a career. You don't want my opinion? I don't really care, there's no need to pretend like I intended to offend anyone on this board or act like an elitist. I even said I was having a hard time finding a job for myself, feeling the economic struggle like many of you.

Lastly, your tone really isn't appreciated. If you have that big of a problem with me, take it to PM. Don't clutter the board with your personal drama.

[Masonite]

Originally Posted by ryanfx

I never meant to offend anyone, including yourself. I was simply giving my professional opinion of what the best thing to do was for a career. You don't want my opinion? I don't really care, there's no need to pretend like I intended to offend anyone on this board or act like an elitist. I even said I was having a hard time finding a job for myself, feeling the economic struggle like many of you.

Lastly, your tone really isn't appreciated. If you have that big of a problem with me, take it to PM. Don't clutter the board with your personal drama.

I thought you were attempting to base your career in Cyber Security, not finding careers, or am I mistaken? Otherwise, you can have no professional opinion on the matter. I will not bring individuals back into the spotlight here, but I do believe there were at least four people who vocalized their disagreement, in some way or another, with your ignorance. My tone, while maybe unappreciative in your opinion, is certainly not against any rules posted on these forums. Don't belittle my responses, just to make yourself look respectable in a public forum, by filing them away under "personal drama"--last I checked, there were millions of people who are struggling in this economy, not just myself.

Just for my humor though, I'll play by your rules. Excellent arguments, good sir! However, I feel your posts have gone astray from the thread's topic, so unless you have something worthy to contribute to the original poster's statement/question (i.e., the end statement to my previous post), please disengage from this thread and take any personal matters with myself through the private messenger, or with a administrator/moderator of the site. Have a great day!

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by ryanfx

The way I figure it, accepting a job with such a low salary you are shooting yourself in the foot when attempting to negotiate a salary of a long term career;

With all due respect, I disagree with this point. Maybe it's all the actual experience I have in this field, not just theoretical thought.

The context of my comment was about having any job or maybe carrying on a part time job while looking for a career oriented position. In this market a 3 month period of downtime can turn into a 12 month period in a flash. When the interviewer asks "what have you been doing the past 9 months" the answer "looking for a job" isn't great. It sure doesn't improve your chances. While this economy gives this answer some cover, it would not have had flown at all a few years ago. Because to the interviewer it shows a potential lack of initiative and willingness to 'do what it takes'. Absolutely nothing wrong with carrying a temp or part time job while job hunting as long as it does not interfere with the search process. IMO it is a plus. In addition, it does not have to be a paying job. Donating time to a charity may look even better. Now you've shown initiative and a positive vibe that hiring managers like. I'd sure rather hire a well rounded 'good guy' who helps others over some kid I think might have been playing PS3 for 9 months. My $0.02, FWIW.

I agree with much of the rest of what you said, btw.

[ryanfx]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

With all due respect, I disagree with this point. Maybe it's all the actual experience I have in this field, not just theoretical thought.
......
I agree with much of the rest of what you said, btw.

that does bring a different perspective on things. I guess a better way to word it would be if you can take some time off to produce something concrete at the end such as a certificate, diploma, etc. something to show the interviewer "here, this is what I've been doing"

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by ryanfx

that does bring a different perspective on things. I guess a better way to word it would be if you can take some time off to produce something concrete at the end such as a certificate, diploma, etc. something to show the interviewer "here, this is what I've been doing"

It's the time between that paper and the interview I'm speaking of. If you have been doing X (let's say earning some related certification) than that is fine. It is not idle time. Idle time can be bad time.

[ryanfx]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

It's the time between that paper and the interview I'm speaking of. If you have been doing X (let's say earning some related certification) than that is fine. It is not idle time. Idle time can be bad time.

yes, then that makes sense!

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

It's the time between that paper and the interview I'm speaking of. If you have been doing X (let's say earning some related certification) than that is fine. It is not idle time. Idle time can be bad time.

Absolutely. You don't want to show a gap in your resume.

When I was looking for a job after graduation in '05, the market was a bitch but nowhere near where it is now. I can't imagine being out there now. How do you expect to get hired when companies don't even have the money to pay their current staff?

For reference, when I graduated I had a BS in Computer Science from St. Joe's (#1 in my class) and an MS in Computer Science (went on a full scholarship w/stipend, graduated in top 5) from Villanova with a specialization in Software Engineering. My "summer jobs" were with places like Johnson and Johnson and General Electric. I had a ton of "leads" and people cold calling me all of the time- for crap jobs, or low salary, or contract work, or jobs thousands of miles away in bumblescum. Very few of them panned out into anything more than a phone interview. No matter how solid you may look it can (or is) very difficult to nail down a place to start a career. You can probably find a job almost anywhere- but a good place to start a career is much harder. You may have to take that low salary to get in the door, and see where it goes. If you aren't closer to where you want to be after a year or two, cut and run with 1-2 years of experience on your resume. That puts you in a different "class" when you are out there looking for a new job.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Job is different than a career. At times like these you might need a job to make money and fill resume, while preparing for a career on our side or in the future. You can't just expect a high paying career out of college right now.

[fmybody]

haha the poor kid who started this thread hasnt wrote back since he started it lol

[Brendan713]

i was sorta looking if someone had there own personal buisness and need a kid to do some hard labor or something like that yes im only 18

[nj85z28]

Start looking through the phone book and call some contractors- Plumbers, HVAC companies, electricians, etc and see if they are looking for a helper. It might even get you into some sort of apprenticeship.

[bubba428]

you can have my job... you can take my house with it

[91chevywt]

You can do pretty well waiting tables...usually at least $12/hr including the $2/hr wage they give you, but usually better. Depends on the people you serve. If thats not your thing, bussing tables usually pays minumum, then the waitresses usually tip $5 or so if you do a good job taking care of their tables. Delivering pizzas can be nice but if you get a lot of cheap people or have trouble getting there you can have problems. Usually hit or miss depending on the area