WildBillyT- 1968 Nova Super Sport

[greenformula92]

Any progress on this WBT?

[WildBillyT]

Been driving it around town a lot. I've got new tires ready to go but haven't had time to get that done as I've been traveling for work a lot. I'm actually at EWR right now.

[WildBillyT]

Little update.

Decided to get some shop time in today and put on an H-pipe and rod ended clutch linkage. Both were well worth the time; the H-pipe smoothed out the exhaust tone and it sounds way better IMO. A little quieter but much deeper.

[WildBillyT]

An update after 3+ years. LOL.

Anyway, last year I disassembled the car and started stripping off the old primer. It seemed like a decent job by the previous owner as it did not come off that easy. Not too many surprises (I knew it had lower quarters done and had some dings here and there) with the only big surprise being the condition of the hood. It's got so much rust that I'm going to just buy an AMD 2" cowl. I don't trust the amount of grinding that's needed on a panel that appears to be very thin and rusted between the supports.

Last week I finally had a chance to get back to it and I finished removing all of the old primer, prepped the steel with the right grit, and did PPG's DX/SX579 and DX/SX520 metal conditioning treatment (to neutralize some old tiny rust spots that I was not sure were active).

Then 2 coats of DP90LF were sprayed.












Now the next step is making heads/tails of the body filler process. It's basically the same monkey shit fight that people have over best synthetic oil, best wax, etc.

Some guys will only put filler over bare steel, others will put it over epoxy primer. Very compelling arguments for both.

The PPG tech sheets say that since I'm going to be well out of my recoat window, I need to scuff the current primer with red scotchbrite/P180, recoat with DP90 again, allow it to cure for a day, and then scuff with P180/apply/shape the Rage Gold.

I'm just not sure if I hit it with DP90 again after finishing the filler to seal it or go straight to surfacer. Or if I trust the PPG recommendation of a 180 grit surface for the filler to adhere to- looks like 80 grit is what seasoned resto guys use.

Thoughts and comments are welcome.

Edit:

Oh, and on a cool side note I found old pit passes from Maple Grove stuck inside the dash. Lines up with the story that the old owner told me about it being an old drag car.
On top of the tickets there was metal fatigue in the torque boxes I had to fix, the car was sold by a performance dealer in Reading PA, and the car is a '68 but wasn't titled until '73 (LOL). Kind of neat.

[PolarBear]

No f'ing way! You're actually working on the car! I bet you're glad you didn't get the car painted when you got it.

My understanding is that you want to put filler on primer, or epoxy since it is plastic and plastic sticks better to "plastic" than it does metal. But I would go with what PPG says since they make all the stuff.

[Blackbirdws6]

Nice to see you are making progress on the car. I wish I could provide some insight into the process but I will ask my Dad what he is doing with the Bird. From what I've seen, he strips it all down, fixes any metal he can (dings, dents, etc), applies the epoxy primer, applies body filler and hits it again with the primer ( I need to check if he is using the epoxy again or another product).

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6

Nice to see you are making progress on the car. I wish I could provide some insight into the process but I will ask my Dad what he is doing with the Bird. From what I've seen, he strips it all down, fixes any metal he can (dings, dents, etc), applies the epoxy primer, applies body filler and hits it again with the primer ( I need to check if he is using the epoxy again or another product).

Originally Posted by PolarBear

No f'ing way! You're actually working on the car! I bet you're glad you didn't get the car painted when you got it.

My understanding is that you want to put filler on primer, or epoxy since it is plastic and plastic sticks better to "plastic" than it does metal. But I would go with what PPG says since they make all the stuff.

Thanks guys. Yeah, life/family can get in the way but I'm still trying to push it forward.

Pretty set on putting filler over the epoxy, it's just what grit to use and if I need to epoxy back over the filler once it's blended.

[Jersey Mike]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

No f'ing way! You're actually working on the car!

Glad to see you making progress, Bill!

[Blackbirdws6]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Thanks guys. Yeah, life/family can get in the way but I'm still trying to push it forward.

Pretty set on putting filler over the epoxy, it's just what grit to use and if I need to epoxy back over the filler once it's blended.

My Dad mentioned, and you as well, there is a good debate on what to do first. Pops decided to put the epoxy (or etching primer) on and then the filler. He said if while sanding he hit any bare metal, he would hit it with epoxy primer (or etching) again. I don't recall the sanding grit but he seems to keep mentioning 180.

[wretched73]

Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6

My Dad mentioned, and you as well, there is a good debate on what to do first. Pops decided to put the epoxy (or etching primer) on and then the filler. He said if while sanding he hit any bare metal, he would hit it with epoxy primer (or etching) again. I don't recall the sanding grit but he seems to keep mentioning 180.

The arguments here are crazy. Some say never to put filler over etching primer while others say its fine.

A friend of mine who does body work, suggested epoxy only. Epoxy over bare metal, filler, then again with epoxy. Biggest point he made was to make sure the metal was warm so condensation wouldn't get trapped between the primer and filler or the bare metal and filler

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6

My Dad mentioned, and you as well, there is a good debate on what to do first. Pops decided to put the epoxy (or etching primer) on and then the filler. He said if while sanding he hit any bare metal, he would hit it with epoxy primer (or etching) again. I don't recall the sanding grit but he seems to keep mentioning 180.

Yeah, that's what I think I'm going to do. Scuff the epoxy, then filler, then epoxy.

Originally Posted by wretched73

The arguments here are crazy. Some say never to put filler over etching primer while others say its fine.

A friend of mine who does body work, suggested epoxy only. Epoxy over bare metal, filler, then again with epoxy. Biggest point he made was to make sure the metal was warm so condensation wouldn't get trapped between the primer and filler or the bare metal and filler

I think people are pretty consistent with no filler over etch since the acid is the issue. Condensation looks like a bit of a confound so I'm glad I did epoxy first.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Did you ask Brandon the body guy?

[WildBillyT]

I did not; however I don't think he's been around for a while.

[sweetbmxrider]

I text him to check this thread.

[transmaro93]

Ok think I got the gist of what your asking. You can do it either way. You can fill right over bare metal but for long term projects leaving the metal open creates opportunity surface rust and other contaminates. Dp90 is a great product and what I would use if I was stripping a car down. Epoxy prime pretty much seals off the metal and create a great corrosion resistant base. You CAN do body work over dried dp. I would sand areas to be filled with 100grit. Then do your filler process. They you can spot hit any bare areas with dp or just prime with a direct to metal primer surfacer. Then sand and paint. If this is going to be a show car you could do the extra step and polyester prime the whole car and block all that down for paint.. then you seal and lay color then clear... hope this answers your question

[transmaro93]

Went back and read what I wrote.. you need to use a primer surfacer over any body work before you paint. The primer will have to be blocked and wet sanded smooth for paint

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by transmaro93

Ok think I got the gist of what your asking. You can do it either way. You can fill right over bare metal but for long term projects leaving the metal open creates opportunity surface rust and other contaminates. Dp90 is a great product and what I would use if I was stripping a car down. Epoxy prime pretty much seals off the metal and create a great corrosion resistant base. You CAN do body work over dried dp. I would sand areas to be filled with 100grit. Then do your filler process. They you can spot hit any bare areas with dp or just prime with a direct to metal primer surfacer. Then sand and paint. If this is going to be a show car you could do the extra step and polyester prime the whole car and block all that down for paint.. then you seal and lay color then clear... hope this answers your question

Originally Posted by transmaro93

Went back and read what I wrote.. you need to use a primer surfacer over any body work before you paint. The primer will have to be blocked and wet sanded smooth for paint

Thanks so much!

The whole car is in two coats of DP90 right now, and I've got a gallon of K38 high build surfacer on the shelf ready to go as a next step after filler and metalwork.

Thankfully I don't have any panel replacement to do but there is some filler that will need to go on. I plan on scuffing the current epoxy layer, then spot spray the area with fresh epoxy (as per PPG) and apply the Rage Gold once it's ready. Do you recommend re-epoxying over the filler before spraying surfacer on?

[transmaro93]

No problem. You can re epoxy over bare metal if you want. Or just spot shoot it with some etch primer. Then k38 over everything. It's not necessary to epoxy over body filler. I like to take my body work and what ever I'm priming over down to 320g. Guide coat is your friend. I like to use the dry type for body work

[transmaro93]

Hey just read an article written froma pretty well known body guy. In my never ending journey to improve my work I read alot. Thought of you for this last one. This guy says it's better to do a one light coat of epoxy prime over any bare metal after you do your filler work. Now being your using k38 which I think is direct to metal you may not need to do this but it certainly would ensure and good sealed up base for future corrosion issues. Its your choice but if you have the time and exfra epoxy id go back and just lightly coat those areas. Just enough to be scuffed with a piece of 320 before you prime without breaking back through to bare. Thought I'd pass tis along because it's directly what you asked lol...