Rear bar problems.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by Mark42

So if I were theoretically need to do brackets, and I'm not racing, and not pushing monster power, what brackets would you recommend? Aren't longer control arms needed.

It can possibly be a bad componant in you suspension but more then likely it is just your stock suspension being a stock suspension! By the time and money you waste on changing endlinks, and bushiungs you could just get a set of Control arms and be done with it!

I got a set of BMR non adjustable tubular control arms for 80.00 brand new for my V6 and it solved the wheel hop issue. I then went overboard and did a Tq arm, PHB,Relocation brackets, Adjustable shocks, and Subframe connectors then the car really hooked good.

[V]

at least your not me, i got wheel hop that no one can solve 100%...

[Mark42]

Sometimes I can be stubborn. I have to admit that not having wheel hop in my 96 really points me toward a problem with the suspension, not just an upgrade. Regardless, I'll probably install a bolt on set of LCA brackets. Been reading about them on various manfuacturers web sites. Seems like they are mandatory for a lowered suspension, and they all pretty much claim an improvement in hooking up with a stock height suspension.

So, if a used set of BMR bolts on is available I'll take those, otherwise will have to buy new. Will take a look around.

[Slow-V6]

So your car is lowered?

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

So your car is lowered?

No, he's on stock springs.

- Justin

[Mark42]

Can you guys explain what the the difference in handling is between the upper and lower mounting points on the relocation brackets? All brandsl have two mounting locations, and generally say to use the lower mount for maximum traction like in drag racing, and the upper location for a more neutral feel. A more neutral feel to what? Does the lower mount mess up handling in turns? The manufacturers are very vague when describing what their brackets do and the differences between mounting locations.

[deadtrend1]

basically, I use the upper one. If the car was lowered .. id use the lowest one.

To add:

All you want is the control arm to be on a downward angle when sitting level at ride height.

[LTb1ow]

Since you have a very powerful powerplant, I would suggest the lower hole for most traction under severe power application.

[Mark42]

Originally Posted by deadtrend1

basically, I use the upper one. If the car was lowered .. id use the lowest one.

To add:

All you want is the control arm to be on a downward angle when sitting level at ride height.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by LTs1ow

Since you have a very powerful powerplant, I would suggest the lower hole for most traction under severe power application.

Ha! Now I know you're pulling my leg!

Yeah, I'll start with the lower mount and if the car handles funny, I'll move it up a notch.

I wish these companies would give more details on their products. Would make life easier.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Mark42

Thanks!




Ha! Now I know you're pulling my leg!

Yeah, I'll start with the lower mount and if the car handles funny, I'll move it up a notch.

I wish these companies would give more details on their products. Would make life easier.

so you do the opposite that tim suggests??? you even said it yourself ''lower mount for drag application.'' with everything ive read from you and with the specs/mods your cars has...you should put it in the furthest hole from ''drag application.'' in fact i think you should drill a new mounting hole and we'll name it after you.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Mark42

Thanks!




Ha! Now I know you're pulling my leg!

Yeah, I'll start with the lower mount and if the car handles funny, I'll move it up a notch.

I wish these companies would give more details on their products. Would make life easier.

Call them and talk to them.

[Mark42]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

so you do the opposite that tim suggests??? you even said it yourself ''lower mount for drag application.'' with everything ive read from you and with the specs/mods your cars has...you should put it in the furthest hole from ''drag application.'' in fact i think you should drill a new mounting hole and we'll name it after you.

I would be honored.

Regarding the mounting placement, most manufacturers say the upper hole is for lowered cars. My car is not lowered. Thats why I will probably use the lower. The lower hole is for max traction, like drag racing. My complaint is they don't define what "neutral feel" means when using the top hole, and if there are any handling issues other than launch traction.

Like Bonzo suggests, I will end having to call them and find out first hand what they say about handling differences.

[LTb1ow]

I am sure they would love to hear from you.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Call them and talk to them.

Ha. Beat me to it. Give them a call for sure.

[198esp1]

the rear control arm angle is very important, it controls a term called roll steer, if you do a search on frrax you should find it. rule of thumb for a 4th gen is pointing down from the rear,top or stock hole. most guys with the brackets add a middle hole and use that. i use the bottom hole but my car is pretty far from stock. Rear axel brackets wont fix wheel hop if you have a bad bushing some were. good luck with it.

[Mark42]

Originally Posted by 198esp1

the rear control arm angle is very important, it controls a term called roll steer, if you do a search on frrax you should find it. rule of thumb for a 4th gen is pointing down from the rear,top or stock hole. most guys with the brackets add a middle hole and use that. i use the bottom hole but my car is pretty far from stock. Rear axel brackets wont fix wheel hop if you have a bad bushing some were. good luck with it.

Thank You! That is the most in depth info I've seen yet.

Update: Well been reading about roll steer. Seems the steeper the angle of the rear trailing arm, the more pronounced roll steer becomes. Applying the basic rules of control arm mounting to our f-body, and it looks like the lower the mounting point used on the bracket, the more over steer will be created. But the flatter the car handles, the less the roll steer affect because roll steer happens then the axle is not parallel to the body. So its still up in the air as to what/how pronounced the effect will be.

Anyone have experience with this in the fbody?

Going to have to experiment to see what works for me.

[Mark42]

I spoke to UMI this evening. They said that if the car was not lowered, and using the stock suspension, even though the lower mount does cause over steer it probably would not be noticed unless "you are pushing the car". In other words, driving to work you won't notice it, but keep in mind that hard cornering will be affected. They also said as long as the rest of the suspension is sound, the bracket will eliminate the wheel hop.

So what did we learn?

1) Even though none of the manufacturers mention it on their website, the use of Control Arm Brackets will increase roll steer, and therefore, over steer. For the average driver, this is a bad thing.

2) Calling the manufacturer directly will give you more info than they want to "share" in their sales pitch.

3) Don't just take anyone's word as gospel on what you should do or not do to solve a suspension problem. Many people are just "talking through their hat".

4) Doing complete research will save you the headache and expense of buying parts and installing them without knowing if said parts will actually do what you want.

Regards,

Mark.