NHRA Revokes licenses - Page 4 - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

sweetbmxrider · 03-09-2015, 07:16 AM

I'm not trying to justify anything but he has a point, its your choice to stand alongside the race. Plenty are crowding the starting area as well. No one is right here in their immediate actions but the individuals here are responsible for their own choices. Of course our screwed up world of law will "prove" otherwise.

NastyEllEssWon · 03-09-2015, 08:25 AM

If there wasn't anything to spectate there would be no spectators. Thats the point this law is trying to prove. They facilitated the event, they provided the entertainment to be viewed, they're responsible for every single person that shows up. This is the reason why we have designated places with regulations for safety put into place. These places also have insurance and professionals on hand to deal with emergency situations if one should arise. This situation seems to be the same situation NHRA was trying to avoid. Imagine if one of these guys on the show ends up killing someone with a car thats allowed into NHRA sanctioned events, by a licensed driver with NHRA logos on the car.

sweetbmxrider · 03-09-2015, 08:45 AM

I understand what you are saying but you have no idea to what level they facilitated the event. If it was a word of mouth, no payed entry, no true organization, how can you completely point the finger at them? I understand the law and the point it makes but I can not exempt the victims from responsibility here like so many people do in so many different aspects of life.

If there were no spectators, would the drivers have raced?

WildBillyT · 03-09-2015, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

I'm not trying to justify anything but he has a point, its your choice to stand alongside the race. Plenty are crowding the starting area as well. No one is right here in their immediate actions but the individuals here are responsible for their own choices. Of course our screwed up world of law will "prove" otherwise.

It's shared responsibility. They made the decision to watch an illegal street race and were killed in an accident.

NJSPEEDER · 03-09-2015, 11:49 AM

I'm curious to see how the charges work related to being the 'promoter' of the race. Do they have to prove that Izzy arranged everything? Had knowledge? Was the go between to arrange the race? Just made recommendations for where to do it? Profited from the race?

I understand the goal is to discourage street racing at all levels. Just not sure how they cover the gap between a guy that may not have even been on scene (according to some of the online stories) and a murder charge.

NastyEllEssWon · 03-09-2015, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

If there were no spectators, would the drivers have raced?

Of course because most likely everyone there had a camera or friends filming for them and the spectators wouldve been the virtual comments on youtube street racing channels

Tons of people street race without spectators...how many people stand on the side of the road watching normal people drive to work though? These are the arguments the prosecutors will most likely bring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

I'm curious to see how the charges work related to being the 'promoter' of the race. Do they have to prove that Izzy arranged everything? Had knowledge? Was the go between to arrange the race? Just made recommendations for where to do it? Profited from the race?

This im curious about but if they did arrest him and charge them that means they must have some type of evidence that meets the burden of proof at the very least. Maybe a Facebook group that he runs? Some text messages sent to racers from his phone? Either way it seems like this guy used his newfound celebrity with this show to garner himself a pack of stoolies willing to follow him around and street race because of his status on the show.

Either way its really interesting to see how this is going to play out. Can't wait to see the consipiracy theory numb nuts come out of the woodwork and say NHRA paid to cause this crash

Mike · 03-09-2015, 03:05 PM

Undercover officers.....

Dudbird113 · 03-09-2015, 07:17 PM

responsible for everyone that shows up... half the time the people that are racing have no idea who the spectators are. not like they can say, can you please move to a safe location. theyll tell you to go pound salt.

Featherburner · 03-09-2015, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudbird113

responsible for everyone that shows up... half the time the people that are racing have no idea who the spectators are. not like they can say, can you please move to a safe location. theyll tell you to go pound salt.

You make it sound like the don't have any choice. Bottom line is they don't have to race!

sweetbmxrider · 03-09-2015, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Featherburner

You make it sound like the don't have any choice. Bottom line is they don't have to race!

They don't have to stand there and watch either? What if you watched a pickup game of basketball from the side of the court and someone going for a loose ball slams into you? Its the player's fault? I don't understand why so much innocence is put on the spectators.

BonzoHansen · 03-09-2015, 09:45 PM

Basketball player isn't doing something illegal. Not a good comparison.

From a legal POV when you purchase a ticket you agree to a hold harmless clause. No such assumption of risk by a bystander on a street.

Dudbird113 · 03-09-2015, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Featherburner

You make it sound like the don't have any choice. Bottom line is they don't have to race!

when theres a dp locked in you tend to have to. wheres coolmanvette on this?

NastyEllEssWon · 03-09-2015, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudbird113

when theres a dp locked in you tend to have to. wheres coolmanvette on this?

once again...youre trying to justify the legality of someone being held responsible by trying to prove your case through illegal activites. none of that holds water. Judges and Juries dont want to hear that you ''had'' to illegally street race because you fear retaliation for an illegal bet placed at said illegal event. do you see how absurb that sounds?

wrong generation · 03-10-2015, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Basketball player isn't doing something illegal. Not a good comparison.

From a legal POV when you purchase a ticket you agree to a hold harmless clause. No such assumption of risk by a bystander on a street.

how is that not a valid comparison ? if there are a bunch of kids playing basketball on the street and i happen to stand there and watch and a loose ball hits me or one of the kids runs into me. how is it not my fault ???? people have to take personal responsibility for their own actions. if i get hit from a ball and get a black eye or get slammed by a kid fall and break my arm it would be my own fault. i was knowingly standing where i shouldnt have been fully knowing the risks.

NJSPEEDER · 03-10-2015, 05:58 AM

Its not a good argument simply because whenever someone is controlling an object, doesn't matter if it is a ball or a car, they are responsible for what happens with it. In your example of a street basketball game, legally, the person who lost control of the ball or ran out of control into you would be at fault.

This is how lawyers create multi million dollar law suits out of stuff that the rest of us consider nothing events. They argue the fault and the danger and the lack of control and everything else against the person that threw the ball.

sweetbmxrider · 03-10-2015, 07:10 AM

That is the dumbest argument ever. If the driver is responsible for the object they are controlling, I can stand in the middle of the road and sue anyone and everyone that hits me. This is clearly not the case. Nor is it when at a professional sporting event, something occurs causing an object or player to contact a spectator(s). As Scott said there, you have purchased a ticket and with that, some sort of risk clause. With this race, the spectator has personal responsibility for their own actions. I don't doubt that the lawsuits will end with settlements for the victims and more than likely the ones being charged will serve a mandatory minimum but it doesn't mean this is correct. Its our sick, sad world and it will never change.

BonzoHansen · 03-10-2015, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrong generation

how is that not a valid comparison ? if there are a bunch of kids playing basketball on the street and i happen to stand there and watch and a loose ball hits me or one of the kids runs into me. how is it not my fault ???? people have to take personal responsibility for their own actions. if i get hit from a ball and get a black eye or get slammed by a kid fall and break my arm it would be my own fault. i was knowingly standing where i shouldnt have been fully knowing the risks.

i missed the pickup game part. sorry, not sure how i glanced over it. probably because i attend a lot of games

WildBillyT · 03-10-2015, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

once again...youre trying to justify the legality of someone being held responsible by trying to prove your case through illegal activites. none of that holds water. Judges and Juries dont want to hear that you ''had'' to illegally street race because you fear retaliation for an illegal bet placed at said illegal event. do you see how absurb that sounds?

I had to rob that liquor store to pay off my bookie. LOL.

Mike · 03-10-2015, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

That is the dumbest argument ever. If the driver is responsible for the object they are controlling, I can stand in the middle of the road and sue anyone and everyone that hits me. This is clearly not the case. Nor is it when at a professional sporting event, something occurs causing an object or player to contact a spectator(s). As Scott said there, you have purchased a ticket and with that, some sort of risk clause. With this race, the spectator has personal responsibility for their own actions. I don't doubt that the lawsuits will end with settlements for the victims and more than likely the ones being charged will serve a mandatory minimum but it doesn't mean this is correct. Its our sick, sad world and it will never change.

No. Then the person walking in the street is he only one breaking any laws. Obstructing traffic, jaywalking etc...

Actually happened here last night.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...l#incart_river

Dudbird113 · 03-10-2015, 01:57 PM

this countries going to hell in a handbag. everyone points the blame finger at someone else when in deed its their own damn fault when something happens. is it sad that someone lost their life watching a street race? yes. that be like seeing a street brawl about to go down and decide to go walk through it or near it to get to your destination, id take the longer route to stay safe.

sweetbmxrider · 03-10-2015, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

No. Then the person walking in the street is he only one breaking any laws. Obstructing traffic, jaywalking etc...

Actually happened here last night.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...l#incart_river

If the driver didn't stop, he would be facing serious charges. Nonetheless, the points I have made still stand and anyone saying differently seems to be on the blame side of this world rather than owning their accountability. When you are in the right, you are in the right. When you are in the wrong, you are in the wrong. I'll never understand why so much gray area is allowed to exist. Its sad.

Mike · 03-10-2015, 06:16 PM

If the driver didn't stop its a different case, the driver would have then committed a crime. I don't understand why this is so difficult...

NastyEllEssWon · 03-10-2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudbird113

this countries going to hell in a handbag. everyone points the blame finger at someone else when in deed its their own damn fault when something happens. is it sad that someone lost their life watching a street race? yes. that be like seeing a street brawl about to go down and decide to go walk through it or near it to get to your destination, id take the longer route to stay safe.

can you prove that they were spectating the race and not just walking down the street? What if they werent spectating the race, what if they heard a loud noise out in their neighborhood, went outside to see what the problem was and died.

What you do know is the facts. A person on a sidewalk is not illegal. A person illegally drag racing in the street is. A person witnessing an illegal act is not illegal. A person organizing the illegal act being witnessed is illegal.

Therefor those who you can PROVE 100% beyond any reasonable doubt were doing something illegal, are to blame. You cant prove that the spectator was spectating, but you can prove that the actions by those being charged with the crime directly led to the death of the victim and those actions are illegal.

Now arguing the morality of charging someone with murder while not being in attendance at the event is a whole different issue. Its just that our justice system relies on FACTS and not MORALITY.

sweetbmxrider · 03-11-2015, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

If the driver didn't stop its a different case, the driver would have then committed a crime. I don't understand why this is so difficult...

Well we went a little off topic so there is no real sense arguing those examples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

can you prove that they were spectating the race and not just walking down the street? What if they werent spectating the race, what if they heard a loud noise out in their neighborhood, went outside to see what the problem was and died.

What you do know is the facts. A person on a sidewalk is not illegal. A person illegally drag racing in the street is. A person witnessing an illegal act is not illegal. A person organizing the illegal act being witnessed is illegal.

Therefor those who you can PROVE 100% beyond any reasonable doubt were doing something illegal, are to blame. You cant prove that the spectator was spectating, but you can prove that the actions by those being charged with the crime directly led to the death of the victim and those actions are illegal.

Now arguing the morality of charging someone with murder while not being in attendance at the event is a whole different issue. Its just that our justice system relies on FACTS and not MORALITY.

There is video, they were not out for a midnight walk with the family nor did they go out to investigate a loud noise. What you said regarding how the legal system works is correct but it doesn't mean it is CORRECT.

The_Bishop · 03-11-2015, 02:30 PM

At the end of the day, there was an illegal street race. People got hurt when a racer crashed.

If there was no street race:
A: Nobody would have been spectating
B: Nobody would have crashed
C: Nobody would have gotten hurt.

There is *NO* was around that. Do I think they deserve to face the charges they are? I think it's a bit harsh but they are organizing and promoting a criminal activity. There *has* to be consequences. Street racing is ****ing stupid, especially when the cars get that powerful. The odds of things going very, very wrong jump up, exponentially.

I've had to extricate too many people from their cars after tragic accidents. Two of the worst were from street racing.

In one, the driver lost it and slid broadside into a pole hard enough to split the car in half and take out the lower section of the power pole, leaving the top hanging by the wires. The driver was screaming as we packaged him up. Turns out his pelvis was shattered, and both legs had multiple fractures. Fortunately, nobody else was hurt.

In the second one, some jackass was showing off street racing on a main avenue with his 10-11 year old son in the passenger seat. In a convertible, no less. He lost it and went straight under the back of a box truck. The bumper of the box truck was all the way to the back seat, on the passenger side. His son was dead, that jackass lived. Should have been the other way around, that kid didn't ask for his life to end.

Nothing you can say will convince me that street racing is OK. I've seen the consequences of it, and it's never good.

On top of that, screw you guys. I didn't need to dig those memories up.