New Commodore

[Jersey Mike]

I'm contemplating my transmission options for my next commuter car. Say what you will, but working in the city & dealing with rush hour gridlock on a day-in-day-out basis gets old.

We'll see.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

I don’t need a manual transmission to feel manly and cool.

I didnt say it had anything to do with feeling manly and cool.

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

It's a PITA in daily driving, especially if it is a lot of stop & go.

This just reinforces my comment, PITA means you dont want to be bothered with using a clutch and shifting, i.e. want to be disconnected with what is going on. I know NO ONE feels like I do, but I think we would be better off if more people drove manual transmissions. People would be forced to pay more attention while driving

Originally Posted by Jersey Mike

Say what you will, but working in the city & dealing with rush hour gridlock on a day-in-day-out basis gets old.

I've BTDT and I wish I had a manual transmission the whole time.

[BonzoHansen]

Virtually no one washes their clothes by hand, milks their own cow or writes letters with a pen & paper anymore either. Technology kind of makes those activities a lot less common place. And if the support for a manual trans is drivers will pay better attention I fail to see how giving people one more thing to think about while they drive is a solution to attentiveness. Honestly seems like a silly defense of driving a manual shift car. Just say you like it better and leave it at that.

Hey, check out old cars where the driver had to manually adjust timing themselves, and operate a choke. I know you wanted EFI that controlled timing because using old fashioned HEI style distributor was ineffective. you must be lazy not wanting to curve your HEI, or set it manually while driving. No, that’s not it. it’s because you embraced the modern technology that rendered it unnecessary.

Daily driving a stick in rt 1 or rt 9 traffic is a pain in the ass - it gets tiring after a while. I’d rather sit and listen to satellite radio than jerk around with a clutch anymore. I see nothing romantic or exhilarating about it day in and day out in a 4 door car – it’s not a race car. banging gears at 6000 RPM is fun. in & out of 1st or 2nd at 1500 rpm, not so much.

you’re right, no one said it had anything to do with feeling manly and cool. I assume that, just like you assume it has to do with laziness.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

One of the main selling points of the manual 4 door to me, is that it covers the basis of the practical sedan as well as the sporty car for the weekends, but it's commute dependent.

I know me, personally, am along the lines of Bear. Outside of a truck used for towing/plowing/etc, I cannot stand driving automatics. I get nearly as much joy driving a freakin' 13,000 lb International that takes forever to reach 45, let alone 60 as I do in the Camaro with the top up. In the Exploder, I'm constantly cursing the transmission for shifting when there was no need (both up and down).

And before anyone has said anything, I've been in said vehicle on a hill in traffic many times. Oh, and it has no radio or AC. Just a 3 foot tall shifter.

What bear alludes to regarding the other luxuries and things that take the eyes off the road (lane departure warnings, texting, etc) are a bigger culprit than people driving automatics IMO.

[WildBillyT]

Even high end euro cars have gone flappy paddles.

Refusing to learn to drive stick is lazy. Knowing how and choosing a different option is just preference.

My Malibu is a gutless Maytag but there have been a bunch of situations where the AT was a better deal. 3 hrs in traffic on 95 in Philly last month comes to mind. That's a long time doing clutchy-footy.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Even high end euro cars have gone flappy paddles.

Refusing to learn to drive stick is lazy. Knowing how and choosing a different option is just preference.

My Malibu is a gutless Maytag but there have been a bunch of situations where the AT was a better deal. 3 hrs in traffic on 95 in Philly last month comes to mind. That's a long time doing clutchy-footy.

my point.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Virtually no one washes their clothes by hand, milks their own cow or writes letters with a pen & paper anymore either.
Hey, check out old cars where the driver had to manually adjust timing themselves, and operate a choke. I know you wanted EFI that controlled timing because using old fashioned HEI style distributor was ineffective. you must be lazy not wanting to curve your HEI, or set it manually while driving.

ALL of these examples change your efficiency, or make it so you dont need to do them anymore, they have NOTHING to do with changing the time it takes you to get to a place while in traffic, so your theory is bunk.
Oh and I have driven a Model A and it was way more fun to drive than my Camaro. starter switch on the floor, optional turn signals, setting the timing while driving, choke, it was awsome. The manual drum brakes were quite scary though

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Just say you like it better and leave it at that.

I do like it better but one could also use your examples against you, a manual transmission is also more efficient than an auto. But I know someone is going to say that the Auto is almost as, with technology most things get better.

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Daily driving a stick in rt 1 or rt 9 traffic is a pain in the ass - it gets tiring after a while. I’d rather sit and listen to satellite radio than jerk around with a clutch anymore. I see nothing romantic or exhilarating about it day in and day out in a 4 door car – it’s not a race car. banging gears at 6000 RPM is fun. in & out of 1st or 2nd at 1500 rpm, not so much.

I have driven the daily in traffic on route one, for years and years, even before this job I have. I drive in bumper to bumper now all over the state too and I am grateful every time I have a manual transmission. But again you are enforcing my statement that people don't want to be connected with his/her commute or driving experience, I should not have said lazy at all, but it IS true. I know you are a going to be a better driver than most people so you specifically are not the issue, but IMO 99% of drivers are not going to be nearly attentive as you.
Automatics have allowed any idiot to drive that can reach the pedals and the steering wheel, but this doesn't mean they should. Parents dicking around with their kids while driving or in traffic, people eating whole meals, watching TV while driving. If they had manual transmissions they wouldnt be able to screw around like they do now. And your statements are showing what most other people are too, they are not putting the priority on the primary function here, driving.
I am not saying every car should spin high RPM or that everyone wants to go fast

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

I know me, personally, am along the lines of Bear. Outside of a truck used for towing/plowing/etc, I cannot stand driving automatics. I get nearly as much joy driving a freakin' 13,000 lb International that takes forever to reach 45, let alone 60 as I do in the Camaro with the top up. In the Exploder, I'm constantly cursing the transmission for shifting when there was no need (both up and down).

While I agree with you , this is not my entire point.

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

And before anyone has said anything, I've been in said vehicle on a hill in traffic many times.

Yep, been there plenty of times.

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

What bear alludes to regarding the other luxuries and things that take the eyes off the road (lane departure warnings, texting, etc) are a bigger culprit than people driving automatics IMO.

EXACTLY. People have become complacent, the main thing anyone driving a vehicle should be concerned with is that, Driving, NOTHING else. Driving manual transmission forces the driver to think about what he/she is doing more than with an Auto.

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Even high end euro cars have gone flappy paddles.

We/I am not talking high end cars, at least I am thinking commuter cars here, in Europe a LOT greater percentage and manual transmission than we have in the USA. Part of the reason for the "flappy padles" is shift speed and/or dual clutch transmissions so you get the efficiency of a manual trans with auto like shift speeds.

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Refusing to learn to drive stick is lazy.

Definitely

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

My Malibu is a gutless Maytag but there have been a bunch of situations where the AT was a better deal. 3 hrs in traffic on 95 in Philly last month comes to mind. That's a long time doing clutchy-footy.

Been there done that would still do manual

[maroman88]

i gotta agree with one point at least... driving stick does make you pay attention to the road way more then in an auto, if u gotta shift u cant be distracted with other things in your hands... texting, eating....

[BonzoHansen]

now that is beat to death, let's get back on topic somewhat. Ok, for someone who would buy this new 4-door gm car if it had a stick, but it doesn't, what new car would they then turn to? What are the comparable new 4-door cars with a stick?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

I have driven the daily in traffic on route one, for years and years, even before this job I have. I drive in bumper to bumper now all over the state too and I am grateful every time I have a manual transmission. But again you are enforcing my statement that people don't want to be connected with his/her commute or driving experience, I should not have said lazy at all, but it IS true. I know you are a going to be a better driver than most people so you specifically are not the issue, but IMO 99% of drivers are not going to be nearly attentive as you.
Automatics have allowed any idiot to drive that can reach the pedals and the steering wheel, but this doesn't mean they should. Parents dicking around with their kids while driving or in traffic, people eating whole meals, watching TV while driving. If they had manual transmissions they wouldnt be able to screw around like they do now. And your statements are showing what most other people are too, they are not putting the priority on the primary function here, driving.
I am not saying every car should spin high RPM or that everyone wants to go fast
Been there done that would still do manual

You went from a work car (auto) to a carpool since you have been At this job. Hardly worth mentioning when comparing driving in traffic

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Mike

You went from a work car (auto) to a carpool since you have been At this job. Hardly worth mentioning when comparing driving in traffic

Had other cars that I commuted with up and down Rt1 in exclusively rush hour traffic manual and auto trans and I drive for work frequently in all area's of the state during peak and non-peak hours.

[sweetbmxrider]

If you are good at driving stick, you should be able to eat, text, dick with your kids, etc no problem

[BonzoHansen]

it's not a matter of being able to, it's a matter of wanting to.

Except texting. I think they are right, it's insanely dangerous most of the time!

BTW I know people on this site that cannot drive a stick....

[Mike]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

it's not a matter of being able to, it's a matter of wanting to.

Except texting. I think they are right, it's insanely dangerous most of the time!

BTW I know people on this site that cannot drive a stick....

I know people in this thread that can't

[sweetbmxrider]

I know I can't

[LTb1ow]

Wall township says I can't

[Slow-V6]

I can drive my T/A on the street no problem, Just at the track is were I miss my gears!!

I love driving my T/A. I dont think I would have bought it if it was a Auto. The Corvette I wanted a Auto as I hate sitting in traffic with a 6 speed, and we drive the Corvette more then the T/A. @ the track I kinda wish my T/A was a Auto because its so much easier to run it. A/T, and M/T both have there advantages and disadvantages. I got into 4 accidents in my life and all were not serious. 2 were my fault and 2 were not. 2 of them happened in my A/T and 2 in a M/T. I slammed into a back of a car in my 86 Camaro which was a 5 speed because I was not paying attention.

[V]

I daily my v more than the cruze . the cruze was bought to be a snow/bad weather car, here in nj it sits now. i am so used to stick now, i automatically go for the clutch every time i start it, even if I've been driving it all day. my next car, if a performance model, will also be stick. the wife will learn to drive stick regardless. shifting becomes second nature after a while. i see why some commutes cause people to want auto and that's fine, i understand but one of the things that draws me to a "sports sedan" is a manual trans.

[Jersey Mike]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Ok, for someone who would buy this new 4-door gm car if it had a stick, but it doesn't, what new car would they then turn to? What are the comparable new 4-door cars with a stick?

I think this is a great question and is being overlooked. Would love to hear some discussion on this.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Ok, for someone who would buy this new 4-door gm car if it had a stick, but it doesn't, what new car would they then turn to? What are the comparable new 4-door cars with a stick?

I guess there really isnt one? The CTS-V may be the only option from GM

[Mike]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

I guess there really isnt one? The CTS-V may be the only option from GM

Not at all comparable. It's double the price

[sweetbmxrider]

Cruze or Regal?

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Mike

Not at all comparable. It's double the price

Yeah, I know. If GM had something in the class i would be interested but the CTS-V is really the only other car they sell in a manual transmission

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

Cruze or Regal?

not RWD V8 4-door cars, not comparable to me.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

Cruze or Regal?

I don't think the Regal has a manual either. I just looked