THE biggest online debate ever? - Page 7 - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

Tsar · 11-30-2005, 05:31 PM

none will take off...

how about we agree to disagree and f this plane thread!

Ian · 11-30-2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebird67dude

The het plane will NOT take off....... and the prop plane would take off.... no more of this thread.

explain why the jet plane would not take off and the prop plane would.

Savage_Messiah · 11-30-2005, 06:47 PM

my friedns at embry riddle for aeronautical somethinorother... just explained to me how it will take off

Tsar · 11-30-2005, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

explain why the jet plane would not take off and the prop plane would.

His reasoning is: Prop is located before the wing therefor when it turns, air goes over the wing and if there's enough of it it should create lift. Turbines are located after the wing and they dont move air over and under the wing as the Prop would do so therefor it will not make a sufficient lif and not take off. I think thats where he's going with it.

Tsar · 11-30-2005, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

my friedns at embry riddle for aeronautical somethinorother... just explained to me how it will take off

ERAU (last letter is university)....u better ask them why airline companies dont wanna hire them after they are done with their training. And why its so expensive to go there (1000 bucks a credit) to go there when you can cross the road and get the same thing for 1/3

ohh and so we clear and u dont get your panties in a wad i know plenty of people from ERAU.

Ian · 11-30-2005, 07:51 PM

a prop plane does not take off by using the air flow from the propellers. the propellers pull the plane along the runway until there is enough speed to take flight.

Savage_Messiah · 11-30-2005, 07:52 PM

and if the runway is moving same speed opposite direction... it cant gain enough speed to take flight?!?!?!?

**** PLANES

Ian · 11-30-2005, 07:58 PM

Okay, I'm going to explain it the same way Matt did for me.

put a toy car on a treadmill and hold it in one position. Now turn the treadmill on and keep holding it there. next, accelerate the treadmill. notice anything? it takes the same amount of energy (thrust) for you to hold the car there at 2 mph and 20 mph. push the car forward and you will notice that no matter how fast the treadmill goes, the car will move forward. you are acting as the jets on the plane and the cars wheels are acting as the planes wheels. the thrust pushed the car forward even though the treadmill accelerated.

Tsar · 11-30-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Okay, I'm going to explain it the same way Matt did for me.

put a toy car on a treadmill and hold it in one position. Now turn the treadmill on and keep holding it there. next, accelerate the treadmill. notice anything? it takes the same amount of energy (thrust) for you to hold the car there at 2 mph and 20 mph. push the car forward and you will notice that no matter how fast the treadmill goes, the car will move forward. you are acting as the jets on the plane and the cars wheels are acting as the planes wheels. the thrust pushed the car forward even though the treadmill accelerated.

you are holding the car, its the same as airplain being tied down or me standing on the breaks as i give it throttle.

Ian · 11-30-2005, 08:13 PM

and then I push it forward (thrust) and it moves forward even though the wheels are spining like crazy

Savage_Messiah · 11-30-2005, 08:14 PM

this needs to DIE

Ian · 11-30-2005, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

this needs to DIE

I'm trying to bury it, but tsar wont let me!

Tsar · 11-30-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

and then I push it forward (thrust) and it moves forward even though the wheels are spining like crazy

why dont u get a remote control airplane with a prop and try it out on a treadmill and if you theory proves right ill give you a 100 bucks? use the controls and not your hands and it will fail.

Tsar · 11-30-2005, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I'm trying to bury it, but tsar wont let me!

i told you before we should agree to disagree, but you wont. you wont change my mind becuase i know its wrong and the aircraft wont take off but you keep saying it will.

Tsar · 11-30-2005, 08:20 PM

im getting sick of the airplane disscussion

Ian · 11-30-2005, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsar

why dont u get a remote control airplane with a prop and try it out on a treadmill and if you theory proves right ill give you a 100 bucks? use the controls and not your hands and it will fail.

If I had ready access to one or both, I would and I'd be $100 richer.

I'm going to give up on this topic because its like pissing into the wind....pointless.

Tsar · 11-30-2005, 08:27 PM

i got a treadmill all u need is a remote control airplane

trashman01 · 11-30-2005, 08:27 PM

tsar, not to keep this alive or anything but how come the airplane wont take off? cuz im trying to think how it wouldnt take off? the runway cant hold it back, the wheels are like shopping carts. heres an example
Kid in a shopping car, his hands are the turbines, and theres string across his head(air in this case) the cart is on a treadmill, the kid grabs the string(air) with his hands(turbines) and pulls him forward. now that he is moving forward, he is disturbing the air and making it move around him, if there were wings ont eh cart, the air would go over/under the wings. like driving a car on a day with no wind, the car displaces the air and wind is made. like when u run thru a bunch of leaves with a car. same concept is applied witht eh air plane, the plane is pushed forward thru the air, the wheels just spin freely and the air plane makes its own wind to force over/under the wing to creat lift

if ur not confused with that ill consider it a victory

Jersey_TA · 12-01-2005, 02:40 AM

The wheels have absolutely nothing to do with the forward movement of the airplane other than fascilitating forward movement on the stationary runway. The thrust from the engines will push the plane forward and take off. Trust me, I'm in the airforce and work on planes.

When we run engines with the brakes set the plane will not move since the ground underneath is stationary and "holds" the plane in one spot. If the ground freely moves the wheels in the oposite direction, you take all the resistance away that holds the plane in place. It makes the original post very hard to understand. You have to think outside of traditional reasoning.

Just think about how a hovercraft works, no wheels. lol.

Koll · 12-01-2005, 06:48 AM

JersetTA. Correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt the thrust move the plane foward and a byproduct of that is the air moving over the wings creating the lift?

Dark_Knight7096 · 12-01-2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob WS6

Ok, so this is going around the 'net. HUGE threads of people arguing back and forth...

The plane WILL take off. The wheels do not affect the thrust of the airplane, they just support it. People cant seem to grasp the concept that they are free rotating wheels and this is not a wind tunnel we are talking about.

The plane WON'T take off. It has nothing to do with thrust being generated, it is LIFT being generated. The lift under the wings has to overcome the forces of drag being excerted (sp) on the rest of the plane. Planes have to be MOVING at a certain speed to do this, while it is true the plane will have reached the proper speed to allow the air to flow over it's wings properly in order to do this, the plane is actually NOT MOVING. Since the plane is not moving there is no airflow over it's wings, therefore no lift is being generated and the plane won't take off. You can debate it all you want but it's symple laws of physics. If anyone wants to continue the debate i have one friend who has a degree as a mechanical engineer and one friend who has a degree in physics and i'll be more than happy to get them over here and post their views.

There now we can all let it die, cause those guys are just confusing with all their technobabble and i'm sure nobody wants that. LOL

Jersey_TA · 12-01-2005, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koll

JersetTA. Correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt the thrust move the plane foward and a byproduct of that is the air moving over the wings creating the lift?

Yes, why do you ask?

GP99GT · 12-01-2005, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Knight7096

The plane WON'T take off. It has nothing to do with thrust being generated, it is LIFT being generated. The lift under the wings has to overcome the forces of drag being excerted (sp) on the rest of the plane. Planes have to be MOVING at a certain speed to do this, while it is true the plane will have reached the proper speed to allow the air to flow over it's wings properly in order to do this, the plane is actually NOT MOVING. Since the plane is not moving there is no airflow over it's wings, therefore no lift is being generated and the plane won't take off. You can debate it all you want but it's symple laws of physics. If anyone wants to continue the debate i have one friend who has a degree as a mechanical engineer and one friend who has a degree in physics and i'll be more than happy to get them over here and post their views.

There now we can all let it die, cause those guys are just confusing with all their technobabble and i'm sure nobody wants that. LOL

everyone in this thread has said that same thing and been showed they're wrong every time...give up.

the plane does move. the plane creates lift. the plane takes off. end

Tsar · 12-01-2005, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Knight7096

The plane WON'T take off. It has nothing to do with thrust being generated, it is LIFT being generated. The lift under the wings has to overcome the forces of drag being excerted (sp) on the rest of the plane. Planes have to be MOVING at a certain speed to do this, while it is true the plane will have reached the proper speed to allow the air to flow over it's wings properly in order to do this, the plane is actually NOT MOVING. Since the plane is not moving there is no airflow over it's wings, therefore no lift is being generated and the plane won't take off. You can debate it all you want but it's symple laws of physics. If anyone wants to continue the debate i have one friend who has a degree as a mechanical engineer and one friend who has a degree in physics and i'll be more than happy to get them over here and post their views.

There now we can all let it die, cause those guys are just confusing with all their technobabble and i'm sure nobody wants that. LOL

make them post on here. i dont think we will ever agree on the matter but whatever. Get them in here man.

Tsar · 12-01-2005, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP99GT

everyone in this thread has said that same thing and been showed they're wrong every time...give up.

the plane does move. the plane creates lift. the plane takes off. end

it does not create lift, it in the same spot. doesnt matter how fast its going while its still stationary.