Getting my new 406 SBC installed, running, and driving

[IROCZman15]

Originally Posted by wretched73

I'd skip the vac pump for brakes and go manual brakes. If you add a vac pump put it on your crankcase. That should actually net you a few HP

woah, I never considered that. never crossed my mind! I am going to have to look into how manual brakes will work with my street/drag/autocross/show setup. its a winter project for sure, but this is exactly why I appreciate getting advice/guidance form you guys on the forums. thanks man


also, again, thank you for the fiberglass rocker panel you gave me. I finally had a chance to put paint on it today. I body-worked that section that had some scrapes on it over the past few weeks and primered it. knowing it is a rocker panel and down low, I did not have it professionally painted, but instead walked down the street to my neighbors house and we painted it there. he has a good setup with a big compressor, several guns, and a water separator device and whatnot. sow e did 4 coats of single stage paint, the same can of paint/reducer/activator that I painted my engine bay with. It will need some very light sanding with 2,000 grit paper and then a buffing, but I am happy with how it turned out.

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had a little time today to check on the starter issue, so i removed the pasenger side header and pulled the starter out,. I checked the gear/bendix and saw that it had a significant amount of lateral play to it. a few people have given me the technical diagnosis and I am happy to learn that its not something I directly caused. see 20 second video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0AwTeODU8s


Considered ordering a starter from summit/jegs but decided to stop by Bruces speed shop and I was able to physically look at the starters to visually see what one would work best. Decided on this Powermaster unit. Ran out of time today to get it installed, and didn't want to just rush putting it all back together, so I will do that friday. want to make sure it is shimmed right and clocked right and the teeth engagement is spot on. no sense rushing through that.

[wretched73]

Still looking good.

https://www.manualbrakes.com/3rd-gen--82--92.html
for some light reading

[IROCZman15]

had a few hours today to get some work done on the car. Got the new Powermaster Master-Torque 9600 starter installed. The infi-clock feature was a big help.. I was able to clock the starter into the perfect position while it was still mounted in the car. checked teeth engagement at 3 places on the flexplate. all was good. used some DEI heat-wrap on my wiring near the header and then installed the header with a new fel pro gasket. I used never-seize on the gasket surface as per Bruce, but I have never done this on a header gasket. hopefully it doesn't result in any leaks. new starter fired-up the engine perfectly. did several test starts and everything is working great. took the car around the neighborhood and still having some intermittent power-brake problems. sometimes they are there, sometimes not. bummer.

perhaps this winter I will look into an upgraded power-brake system, but I don't want to be doing any of that now at all. Might just get a replacement booster for cheap and replace the one I have now. do not want to do a mid-year brake system renovation, swapping out a booster would only take about an hour or so.












noticed how much metal from the headers is blocking exhaust gas flow from the cylinder head. perhaps this is one of the several reasons my car is not performing like it has 500+ horsepower. thoughts??

[Joey D]

Do the brake booster. Quick and relatively cheap. Go toa dyno day or sumthn where u can get a rwhp would b a guess for me to see where u r at. U should b mid to upper 400's but by ur mph i thnk ur low low 400's. Just a random guess tho

[sweetbmxrider]

Will the brake booster help if you don’t have enough vacuum?

The mids are probably hurting more than the port matching with your powerband.

[LTb1ow]

I'll trade you a 3.73 geared S60 for your 3.54 geared 12 bolt.

[IROCZman15]

yea, would love to do a simple quick dyno session, but not the $400 dyno and tune one at the local shop, not till Spring of 2021 when I can do that dyno/tune and then for $200 extra have the nitrous tune/dyno added on. no sense in dong two dyno tune sessions, but if a shop was holding a dyno day, I would do one of those where you get 3 pulls for like $75. I agree, seems like low-400 hp to the wheels based on timeslips and seat of the pants feel.


agreed on the mid length headers holding me back. wasn't sure about the port matching significance so i figured I'd ask here. I knew that a full exhaust re-do would be needed when I began this powertrain upgrade a few years ago (see my other build thread where I discuss it) but I wanted to see how well this current setup worked with the engine. for sure it wont work with nitrous, so my hopeful winter plans are for a long tube header and 4" mufflex exhaust setup. probably a 4" cut out too.

booster was ordered. using my autozone rewards points, a autozone promo code, returning the unused vented gas cap, and then sending back the current booster for a core charge, I am getting a replacement booster for like $60 total. just have to paint it and isntall it. I had car out for about 45 minutes yesterday. booster works intermittently. mostly works, but there are moments when it does not, even at various levels of throttle input. keeps things interesting. current booster is about 8 years old and HAS worked all through these various drag/autocross days 9with the old engine) and also multiple race events and 2,300 miles with the new engine... and during that whole time the engine was only making 7.5" vac so I don't see why an inexpensive booster swap-out wont get me just 3 more months of use in this configuration. come winter-time, I will certainly figure out a much better solution for power brakes.


I thought you liked your S60 setup though?!? I mean its damn bulletproof basically right?

[wretched73]

Originally Posted by IROCZman15

I thought you liked your S60 setup though?!? I mean its damn bulletproof basically right?

He needs your gear ratio more than anything else

[LTb1ow]

Ya I just want ~3.50 area gears, and the cost to re gear is too much for me to bother.

[IROCZman15]

ah gotcha. yea, the cost to re-gear is also a road-block for me also.


took some time today to wet sand and compound the replacement GFX piece that I painted 5 days ago. 4 coats of single stage paint was bound to leave some orange peel from an amateur painter like me. so, I hit it with 2,000 grit wet and then 3,000 grit wet. compounded it by hand twice, and then used some hand polish on it. did not wax or seal it yet, I want to wait another week to do that. I did not spend too much time/effort on the underside because nobody is going to see that anyways.











did my best to get it to have a good shine and reflective finish by hand:









surprised nobody has asked me about why I cut a half-circle out of the middle of the underside! well, my S&W subframe kit has a support bar that goes to the rocker area, and this is where I usually put a floor jack to lift the side of the car. it has always been ultra close to crushing my old GFX piece, so I made a generous cut-out on the new one in order to easily give myself room for the floor jack pad to get into place .







oh well, I am glad to not have the broken piece held on by tape anymore, and this cost me only a few bucks for the panel from wretched and also I already had the paint, and supplies. mistake repaired.

from:





to:

[wretched73]

Looks good, came out real nice

That cut out had me confused, I didn't think it looked like that when you picked it up lol

[sweetbmxrider]

Very nice work

[IROCZman15]

All the recent activity on this board is awesome. I like signing on and seeing 17 new posts! keep it up.

Updates:

-got the new brake booster in and it works like it should
- new starter is in and working great
- replaced my rear pads and rotors because I guess a slide-pin locked up and killed one of my inner pads. I knew it was happening a few weeks ago and knew I was due for pads and rotors in the back so I ordered up a powerstop set.








Recent Major issue (resolved)
-I was all set to race at island dragway about 3 weeks ago but they canceled for the night, so I went to take the car out for a fun drive and it went crazy (bad). wouldn't start. had to work the throttle to start it and keep it alive. spent many house troubleshooting it and eventually became baffled that the ignition timing was 20 degrees retarded. I usually idle at 19-20 deg and that is why the car wouldn't run , because it was seemingly now at 0 deg timing. spent lots of time on the holley efi forums and tech support. I was suspicious that the Holley sniper was having an issue controlling the timing, so I decided to put the weights and springs back in the msd 85551 distributor. The problem still existed, but at least I ruled out the holley sniper unit. During all of my troubleshooting, it kept being a primary theme that the magnetic MSD style ignition setup I was running does not play nice with sniper efi. It is the same CD box and coil that I had on my old engine, and I was fairly certain I could use it with this engine. Some people get it to work fine, but most eventually experience problematic issues. Mine worked great for 6 months, but in an instant, it was unhappy.

The fix: switch over to a Holley HyperSpark ignition system. Specifically designed to use with the sniper efi, it uses a hall-effect sensor and no sensitive magnetic stuff. Even though dozens and dozens of my datalogs showed no traces of RFI, something was somehow pulling 20 degrees of timing from my ignition, mysteriously. I checked as many engine components as I could without taking off the timing cover and something kept bringing me back to the CD ignition box (MSD Digital 6Plus). I have had this box on the car since 2015 and in that time it has been sent back to MSD TWICE for problems/repair. It has a feature integrated to it ....when selected it will retard ignition timing 20 degrees during cranking rpms. I am skeptical, but I think something in the box went bad and this feature, despite being not selected by me, is now stuck on. I tested the car by driving around the neighborhood with adding an "additional" 20 degrees of timing to my base timing and the car ran great. So I had to run 40 deg at idle to get 20 deg in reality. I had to run 58 deg at WOT in order to get 38 deg in reality. i was not really at 58 deg, but thats because I had to add 20 deg advance to compensate/cancel-out the mysterious false 20 deg of retard. Drove it around for a week like this and no issues. This was not a long term fix, but it was to ensure that the engine was in good shape.

Holley hyperspark arrived yesterday and finished the install today. I went overboard running wires neat, shortening the long lengths of wire, labeling each wire with my little label-maker, and generally doing the best job I could. Sniper and Hyperspark wires run directly to the battery.
















Took the car out for a short test drive after checking timing, static timing at idle and 3,000 rpms, and whatnot. Car felt a bit stronger than usual! That was weird, but it felt noticeably angrier. I like that. Hopefully it wasn't just my imagination.. but regardless, the Holley Hyperspark system verified that mechanically nothing is pulling timing from inside the engine and that the problem was indeed with something in the MSD setup.

Called MSD and asked them about the box. They want to take a look at it, so I am sending it back to them for an evaluation/repair. I told them I plan to sell all the magnetic MSD stuff (coil, distributor, spare cap, wiring, and this CD box) so I want it back with a clean bill of health. This ignition setup will work great for many many engine setups, but I would use caution if using it with a sniper efi. Keep an eye out for the classified ad in about 2 weeks.




I plan on heading to Island Dragway tomorrow night for Test and Tune, so we will see how it goes!

[Blackbirdws6]

Nice to see you got the issue resolved. Good luck at Island.

[wretched73]

Nice update, Saturday should be a nice day for racing

[IROCZman15]

Thanks. I am going to test drive the car this afternoon to make sure it is ready to go. I actually plan on going to the track tonight, Friday, not tomorrow. I did about 10 minutes of street diving with it last night and I saw large number gains in me LEARN table, as well as the car feeling faster seat-of-the-pants. So perhaps I had ignition issues this whole time? We shall see. Timeslips and datalogs will tell the truth. Going to put a new set of spark plugs in it later this afternoon, remove the swaybar, pull out the interior and seats, and swap over to the drag wheel setup.

[IROCZman15]

I had an exciting night at the track. After getting the car all setup at home, i drove it to the track and got there a little early. Got through tech and set everythign up while chatting with a few friends I knew that were also racing and some that came to spectate. The goal for hte night was not to get too involved with reaction time numbers, but to see if I could finally get into the 11 second zone.

First Pass: 11.855 at 115.57 mph !
The tune i was using was a "safe" "street" tune I had used to drive to the track. WOT timing was 34 deg and target afr was 12.5. 60 deg temp and DA was 780. Front tires stayed at 36 psi all night and the rears I had at 19psi for the first 3 passes. launched at 920 rpm(idle), shifted at 6,048 rpm, and 6,401 rpm while crossing the traps at 5,840 rpm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSVy3a7me0


I was thrilled! you can hear it in the video. I was hoping my next passes were going to be better, but oddly, this was my best pass of the night??!?!

Pass 2:
Now knowing that the brand spankin-new holley hyperspark system was indeed working properly under WOT, I put in a diferent ignition curve. Much more basic. Just a sweep from 20 deg at idle to 36 deg at 3,000 rpms. Set target AFR to 12.6 . Launched at 916 rpm, shifted at 6,500 and 6,500 (rev limiter) and crossed the traps at 5,811 rpm. I had somehow forgotten to not connect/setup my damn shift-light when doing hte ignition install and FORGOT this until mid way into pass #2 ! I had been in the throttle waiting for the shift light to come on, and it never did (twice) so I was slapping the 6,500 rpm limiter. whoooooops ! best 60 foot of the night though at a 1.64 ! checked the brand-new plugs afterwards and everythign looked good. The DA was 505 and the temp was 57 deg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzSsKrr7g7M


Pass 3:
decided I would try using the same tables in my tune and now know that I can't wait for the shift light because its not hooked up. Tried to launch a little higher rpm at 1,200 and it still flashed hte converter at exactly the same usual 2,800 rpm zone. Watched the needle onthe dash for when to shift and I was not quite used to doing this, so I again, over revved it. Shifted at 6,500 limiter, and 6,500 limiter again. Through the traps at 5,857rpm. DA was 413 and temp was 56 deg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agaTXZNH4MM


Pass 4:
Same exact tune file as pass 3 and pass 2. Timing at 36 deg and target WOT afr at 12.6 DA was now 342 and temp was 55 deg. I dropped the rear tire pressure from 19 to 18 psi and also made the rear shocks a little bit softer. tried launching from a higher rpm, but with no vacuum, my brake booster can't hold the car in place more than 1700 rpm. The guy in an IROC next to me jumped the light before the tree came down and when this happened, I was justtt starting to creep forward, so I just left. Launched at 1,700, shifted at 6,400 and 6,134 and through the traps at 5,771. converter flashed higher, but first gear took longer it seemed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy_3R-W8ywY


Pass 5:
Had become confused and frusterated but unwilling to give up at improving on my first pass. Bumped the timing to 37 deg at wot and the target afr to 12.7. the DA was now 107 and the temp 53 deg. kept rear shocks loose and kept tire pressure at 18. I tried one more attempt at leaving from a higher rpm, and left at 1,700. For the first time ever, I felt a little bit of tire slip off the launch. Maybe liek 1/3 the rotation of tire. you can see the hood shake at the moment of tire slip if you watch the video. Also, the converter took a bit longer to flash and instead of its usual 2800 rpms, it flashed at 3,400 rpm. Shifted at 6,122 and 6,198 rpms and crossed the line at 5,800 rpms. the timeslip printer at the booth jammed and they had to hand-write slips for a while

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf1EE2EqN9s



Pass 6: Decided that perhaps my timing tables and "tuning skill" was not going well tonight, so I switched back to the tune I used for pass 1. I did change it a tiny bit, but not much.. timing was still at 34 deg like in pass 1 but I leaned out the target afr to 12.6 and smoothed out the VE table. The DA was now 67 and the temp 52 deg ! I was really hoping for another 11.8x pass. Launched from a 956 idle, and it spun just a touch again like in pass 5. Did not like that.. was not expecting that. I shifted at 6,418 and 6,071 to cross the stripe at 5,827 rpms.
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no video on this run. I must have double tapped the record button. my mistake.



So, overall, very happy to have gotten that "monkey off my back" and run into the 11 second zone. Would love to figure out scientifically why I couln't improve over hte course of the night with the weather getting better and me bumping up the timing advance as well as leaning out the target WOT. aside from my poor shifting, my mph should have been better with more timign and afr and DA. Any suggestions, let me have 'em.
I am glad that hte hyperspark ignition works great. The car does seem to pull from low rpms much better and my 60 foots show a pretty good improvement to justify my seat-of-the-pants thought process. Did not like the tire spin at launch on pass 5 and 6. Maybe I still had water in the tire grooves? maybe the track temp was getting low?maybe my 18 psi and softer shock setting was too far down?



anyways. good night overall. Loaded up the car and street drove it home at midnight.

[Blackbirdws6]

Congrats on cracking into the 11s. My quick take of why your first run was the best is for two reasons. 1. You didn't hit the limiter like the other couple runs plus a different launch method and 2. Your last run shows a worse 60' but I'd be willing to bet if you had the same as the first, it would be darn close to the first run.

The tuning changes also add variability to the runs also so it simply may not have been ideal. The DA dropped off nice so in theory with the same tune it would have possibly picked up mph.

[WayFast84]

Congrats man. I forgot to answer your text, I've been so busy with work. I hope to come to the track on a Friday night soon.

[PolarBear]

TL;DR
Too many numbers
would not recommend

[wretched73]

Couple things that I see, and I'm curious what people have to say about this.

1) you make too many changes at one time lol, I think it is safe to say that no one on this board has made as many passes this year as you have. So make 1 change, make a pass, see if it helped, rinse and repeat. If you keep adding timing and running slower, your car doesn't want more timing, but I think you made too many changes for that to be an indisputable fact

2) Maybe try short shifting? Based on your dyno sheet, your tq falls off pretty quick after 6K.

[IROCZman15]

I agree. I definitiely agree. Sometimes I get impatient while I am trying to figure out what I did right/wrong the previous pass and I rush my decision making. I know that time is limited and I try to make the most out of each track day.


I think I want to try to short shift the 1-2 shift. I don't know if I am wasting time/speed above 6,000 rpm in 1st gear. If I shift maybe around 5,700.. I can get into 2nd gear and rev that out to 6,200 and hopefully get into 3rd gear a bit sooner so I can be closer to my max hp peak as I am crossing the finish ? Does this sound accurate or ?


I am wondering if I spun on the launch during the last two runs because I softened the shocks more (after run 3) and launched at a higher rpm, and lowered the tire pressure 1 psi, and maybe the track temp was getting colder? Should have kept the shocks and tire pressure the same because it was working just fine. I was in search of a better 60 foot, but instead caused it to spin. I am also wondering if I need to do a better burnout? In the car I cant see what the tires are doing, but i usually let go of the line lock after 3-4 seconds. Sometimes i have foot braked and try to do the same 3-4 second burnout. I make sure I roll out from the burnout with the tires still spinning to get rid of any remaining water.

I hope to really refine what I need to do in the next few weeks and put together a few really proper runs. it was a little more challenging this Friday with no shift light and trying to go back to watching the dash gauge needle.

[wretched73]

I think shifting from 1-2 at 5700 is a bit early. I'd probably shoot for 6200 at first, if it works maybe try 6000 and see if that helps more. 2-3 shift, I'd follow the same recipe.

Someone else will have to chime in about your burnout and tire spin. That is further out of my league lol

[LTb1ow]

gopro on suction cup to watch for tire spin, or have a friend video from side.

[IROCZman15]

yea, I will try shifting the 1-2 shift a bit lower. which is actually exactly what I did on my first pass(best pass). I know you guys can only view the screenshot of my datalog, but if you look at the red line, I shifted at 6,048 rpm, and 6,401 rpm on the 2-3 shift. That one felt great seat-of-the-pants. When I am up above 6,000 rpms in first gear its pulling, but kind of feels like wasted revving. Up above 6,000 rpms in 2nd gear feels better, just not so much in first gear.

I could do a goPro but its hard to see at night. A buddy at the starting line with a camera pointed at the rear tire(s) would be optimal indeed.