Questions before header install

[SeanC]

Hey guys,

I know there are a ton of header install guides, but I have a few questions I have that i'm still not 100% on. I'm installing pacesetter lontubes (AIR and EGR equipped) on my 96' Trans Am, and getting two magnaflow cats welded into the ORY. During the install, i'll be installing new plugs, wires (maybe over the valve cover), and new energy suspension motor mounts.

First Question: I don't need an O2 simulator for the O2 sensor after the cats, right? I read on an install guide that the guy installed 2 Cats and a simulator (doesnt make sense to me...)

Second Question: What is the best way to install the motor mounts? I've jacked my engine up using a jack and block of wood on the corner of the oil pan before....Is this the best option, to just do this one side at a time?

Third Question: I've heard that brand new headers mess up your O2 sensors by coating them with the stuff that burns off. Is there a way to avoid this? I dont want to ruin my O2 sensors and have to spend money on new ones...

Fourth Question: What spark plugs are best? I changed them last big project I did, but I think I want to put brand new ones in while i'm down there.

I'm getting a little scared for this project...everyone says how hard it is and my experience is so-so. I'm sure i'll be asking you guys for more advice as I get started.

Thanks for your help everyone!

Sean

[jts98z28]

Originally Posted by SeanC

Hey guys,

I know there are a ton of header install guides, but I have a few questions I have that i'm still not 100% on. I'm installing pacesetter lontubes (AIR and EGR equipped) on my 96' Trans Am, and getting two magnaflow cats welded into the ORY. During the install, i'll be installing new plugs, wires (maybe over the valve cover), and new energy suspension motor mounts.

First Question: I don't need an O2 simulator for the O2 sensor after the cats, right? I read on an install guide that the guy installed 2 Cats and a simulator (doesnt make sense to me...)

Second Question: What is the best way to install the motor mounts? I've jacked my engine up using a jack and block of wood on the corner of the oil pan before....Is this the best option, to just do this one side at a time?

Third Question: I've heard that brand new headers mess up your O2 sensors by coating them with the stuff that burns off. Is there a way to avoid this? I dont want to ruin my O2 sensors and have to spend money on new ones...

Fourth Question: What spark plugs are best? I changed them last big project I did, but I think I want to put brand new ones in while i'm down there.

I'm getting a little scared for this project...everyone says how hard it is and my experience is so-so. I'm sure i'll be asking you guys for more advice as I get started.

Thanks for your help everyone!

Sean

not much help but
1-you can just get 2 of your o2s

3-not that i know of, ive mine are still fine after about a year and a half of driving

[deadtrend1]

Hey guys,

I know there are a ton of header install guides, but I have a few questions I have that i'm still not 100% on. I'm installing pacesetter lontubes (AIR and EGR equipped) on my 96' Trans Am, and getting two magnaflow cats welded into the ORY. During the install, i'll be installing new plugs, wires (maybe over the valve cover), and new energy suspension motor mounts.

You want to go the OTVC wire route

First Question: I don't need an O2 simulator for the O2 sensor after the cats, right? I read on an install guide that the guy installed 2 Cats and a simulator (doesnt make sense to me...)

Option A: get o2 bungs welded post cats when you manage to find someone to weld the cats into the ORY

Option B: o2 simms for both banks post cat

option C: Get them tuned out buy a tuner like PCM4Less

Second Question: What is the best way to install the motor mounts? I've jacked my engine up using a jack and block of wood on the corner of the oil pan before....Is this the best option, to just do this one side at a time?

Yes, remove the long bolt, jack the engine up to give you some room, make sure its secure in the air, and try any way you can to get them out

Third Question: I've heard that brand new headers mess up your O2 sensors by coating them with the stuff that burns off. Is there a way to avoid this? I dont want to ruin my O2 sensors and have to spend money on new ones...

Send them to Jet-hot before you even put them in. I've heard it but not had a problem

Fourth Question: What spark plugs are best? I changed them last big project I did, but I think I want to put brand new ones in while i'm down there.

NGK

I'm getting a little scared for this project...everyone says how hard it is and my experience is so-so. I'm sure i'll be asking you guys for more advice as I get started.


Thanks for your help everyone!

Sean

[SeanC]

Thanks for the help so far guys!

So....I'd rather not even bother having bungs welded in...That means more $$ that I don't have lol. I guess i'll just buy O2 simulators until I get a tune for my car. Is there any disadvantage to not using your rear O2s? I assume not since they pretty much tell the computer that your cats are working.

I just read on the instructions for the motor mounts that it says, "DO NOT JACK THE ENGINE UP BY THE OIL PAN"...Should I just not worry about it? I really dont want to mess it up....

Is there a particular set of NGK plugs that are better than others? I see that the platinum ones are much less than the iridium ones.

Again, I greatly appreciate the help guys!

[BigAls87Z28]

Dont place the jack pad on the oil pan. You might want to spread the weight out by lifting the engine up on the crank pulley/balancer of if you can get your hands on a cherry picker, thats always good.

I believe that the TR55's are the prefered plug? Standard TR55's are thier V-Power coper plugs, but they do make iridiums as well.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Dont place the jack pad on the oil pan.

if you read earlier he plans to put a block of wood between the jackpad and the oil pan. the wood will be soft enough and evenly distribute the jacking force to not ruin anything. same principle as putting a motor/trans on a pallet

[LTb1ow]

Other than being even more of a pain in the ass and still be illegal, any reason for the emissions stuff?

I tried to run regular wires with pacesetters, did not work, highly recommend a universal LT1 MSD wire kit. With the 02s, run the ones that are in there now for a while after the header install, then swap em later. Remember to get 02 extensions too.

When I did motor mounts, I used a bottle jack under the crank hub and just let the motor lean over to a side after taking out that side's motor mount bolt. The mounts themselves can be a pain in the ass, you want a vice, dremel/grinder, BFH, and a good pry bar.

As far as plugs, I run autolite 104s, but stock should be 103s, my engine did not like other plugs, NGK etc... dunno.

[SeanC]

I got the pacesetters with emissions because i'm trying to keep it fairly street legal.....same deal with the cats. I really dont think it takes much power away and I dont want to have to worry about getting screwed everyday when I go past a cop. Plus, i'm not planning on getting a tune in the near future.

I can definitly see this project turning into a nightmare haha. I'm starting Friday and working all day Saturday (car is at home, i'm away at school). We'll see how far I get and how much I want to pull my hair out lol. My guess is that its going to be a multiple weekend thing

[RamAir95TA]

I'm going to sway to the opposite side of the spectrum and suggest you run the MSD wires in the stock routing. OTVC (IMO) looks tacky, make your valve covers impossible to keep clean, and clutter up the engine bay. Also, there is alot of room for error when you cut and crimp your own wires, not to mention how much of a pain in the ass it is. I ran OTVC on my car for 6 years and with my new 383 and LPPs, it was so much easier to route them in the stock looms using zip-ties to keep them away from the headers.

[SeanC]

Funny you say that, because I'm stuck routing them in the stock location. I ordered a set of regular MSDs not even thinking that they would need to be different lengths if I were to run them over the valve covers (dumb me). I'm thinking about just leaving the wires I have on right now for a bit and see how well they stand up to the heat from the headers. I would really hate to ruin a brand new set of MSDs....

Also, the two magnaflow cats (universal 3" spun) I bought do not have any type of heat shield on them. Is this something I may have a problem with as far as them getting really hot and heating up the floor in the car? (not really sure where they will be positioned exactly).

[Tru2Chevy]

Just get some wire sleeve for the good wires.....

http://www.jegs.com/p/Accel/Accel-Pr...47717/10002/-1

- Justin

[NastyEllEssWon]

you might as well not get the emission fittings because long tubes are illegal regardless.

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

you might as well not get the emission fittings because long tubes are illegal regardless.

While this is true, you are far more likely to fail a visual check due to the lack of EGR and AIR hookups than you are because the cats have been moved back a bit. Technically, yes, it's illegal, but that doesn't mean that you should promote further illegal activity.

- Justin

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

While this is true, you are far more likely to fail a visual check due to the lack of EGR and AIR hookups than you are because the cats have been moved back a bit. Technically, yes, it's illegal, but that doesn't mean that you should promote further illegal activity.

- Justin

Never had the hood popped, but def had the mirror stuck under the car. Granted I have only been once, but who's counting.

I got the AIR/EGR crap on the dream I would pass, and well, anyone that knows my car can attest to its engine bay cleanliness...

Just go non emissions junk, get them tuned out, and run cats if you really feel like it.

[SeanC]

So I started the project this past weekend, and surprisingly, so far so good. I got all the old junk off in an afternoon (minus the O2 sensors, their frozen in the manifolds beyond belief, so I think i'm going to buy new ones). The next step is installing the new motors mounts this upcoming weekend.

A few questions as far as the headers go that I thought about when I was taking everything apart:

1) I dont have O2 extensions yet...What lengths do I need? From what i've read you need 1 12" for the passengers side and 1 24" for the drivers side (both flat). Is this correct?

2) Do I need to buy ramps and some wood to get the car high enough? I dont have ramps, and every write up i've seen they get the car rediculously high. Alls I have is a set of tall jack stands...

Anything I should know before tackling the motor mounts? It's a little intimidating...

Thanks for all the help so far guys, its nice to have someone help me through the process haha

[LTb1ow]

Higher you can get the car, the easier it will be to work under there, and it will give you some more wiggle room to sneak the headers up.

The mounts are not that bad, get a bottle jack under the crank hub and slowly raise the engine. Then loosen one sides bolt and when you can slide it out, do that, then raise the motor more with the jack. I would do the header now too, or you will be doing this again...

Then unbolt the mount from the block (driver side) or K member ( passenger side), hardest part will be grinding the stock rivets out, and then prying the mount apart to get the rubber stock one out. After you get that done, get the poly mount inside the clam shell, and re install, slowly lower the engine until you can line the bolt up.

[RamAir95TA]

I would feel more comfortable using a jack and several 2x4s under the oil pan/side rails as opposed to the crank hub to jack the motor up. I've heard of people jacking up the motor via the crank hub, but can't imagine the thrust bearing being very happy.

[SeanC]

Thanks for the responses guys, definitly helpful.

I think i'm planning on jacking it by the oil pan with some 2x4s...I did it once a while back when I was doing some work and it seemed to work fairly well (although it still scares me).

Thanks for saying to do the headers WHILE i'm doing the mounts. I'm not sure what I was thinking about doing one after the other lol.

Do you think I should route my new spark plug wires before I slide the headers into place? It looks like an absolute nightmare either way...

[RamAir95TA]

You will need to do the wires after you do the headers because you risk breaking off the plugs trying to finagle the headers into place. You'll have to get creative.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by RamAir95TA

You will need to do the wires after you do the headers because you risk breaking off the plugs trying to finagle the headers into place. You'll have to get creative.

Yea, def do not wanna screw that up.

With LTs, plug changing and access is a breeze. If you got make it your own wires, mock em up without the header in place ( if your going under em) and give yourself an inch or two slack.

[SeanC]

Unforunately, I already order MSD wires, so i'll be using them. Going to be interesting to say the least. Almost seems like one of the worst parts of the job lol

Also, i'm looking for a pair of AC Delco O2 sensors (flat), and 2 rear O2 sims (square). Anybody have any for sale? Thanks!

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by SeanC

Unforunately, I already order MSD wires, so i'll be using them. Going to be interesting to say the least. Almost seems like one of the worst parts of the job lol

Also, i'm looking for a pair of AC Delco O2 sensors (flat), and 2 rear O2 sims (square). Anybody have any for sale? Thanks!

Are you planning on tuning out the EGR/AIR or running it?

If tuning them out, just have the tuner remove the rear 02s as well.

[NastyEllEssWon]

after you get the rivets off the mounts its easier to heat up the mount insert first and itll pretty much do it itself.

[SeanC]

As of right now, I am planning on running the AIR/EGR and running O2 sims because I am not getting a tune. I dont really have the money for it, and I don't see any point in getting one yet until I have a few more mods....

What is everyones opinion on this? Is it woth getting a tune with my engine mods? I have a catback, longtubes, 1.5 RRs (they were given to me so I threw them on with hardened pushrods and guideplates instead of the stock stamped rockers), and a cold air intake. I just feel like its not worth it at this point. How much does a tune usually cost? I'm hoping to eventually get the LE2 package for my car, granted the motor holds together (110,000 miles).

I'll definitly try heating up the motor mount inserts, just need to get something to be able to heat them up with first lol

[JL8Jeff]

Do the motor mounts before you install the headers. I ran the MSD wires in the stock looms. You will need to pull them off and grind them open with a file or something but it's worth the effort. I bought some heat wrap to help protect the fuel lines where the y-pipe crosses from the driver's side and to protect some wires on the passenger side. The passenger side header is a paint to get in and get the EGR tube hooked up. You can run without a tune but the computer will be pretty far off so you will want to get it tuned when you can. You can try breaking the O2's loose with a hammer and wrench, but don't expect them to last long after that. I think I got a couple of weeks out of mine before they stopped working. But it's worth trying before you ruin the new ones with the coating that burns off the headers.