Ready to Push it Off a Cliff!

[GhostDakota]

This is for my 98, my "daily driver" that I can't drive anymore! I was driving in to work 1-2 months ago and I noticed some hesitation in 6th gear at 65 MPH. Wasn't a big deal I thought. Then, I noticed it in lower gears/RPMs, and now while accelerating in every gear. It's like a full auto AK-47, for example, in terms of rate (not loudness). It does not happen at idle while revving unless I turn the car on and it starts doing it right off the bat.

My SES light has been on for months now. It's telling me the driver side o2 reading is off. On my drive to/from the Hamptons just prior to all this I hit 2389048923480234 bumps, pot holes, etc., mainly on the Belt Parkway & Staten Island Expressway. Is it possible it rattled my cat apart and is now clogged up?

I don't think it's bad gas, but who knows. I've always run Sunoco 93 octane gas. Over the weekend I was in the Hamptons and had to fill with Hess gas. I ran through that tank after a couple days, and filled up with Sunoco.

I have 109,XXX miles and do not think that the prior owner changed the wires. The plugs are half and half. I just changed the wires to Vengeance Racing:


Also running new TR55 NGK plugs gapped to .055. The gap of the old plugs was at .085!

These are the plugs, set up in cylinder order. Top plugs are the front of the vehicle:


Codes:
P0420 - original code I've had for some time
P0300 - Random misfire detected
P0140 - o2 circuit blah blah (from when I disconnected the driver side downstream o2 sensor)

I got the CRC MAF cleaner. Cleaned it during my lunch break. Still sputtering - mainly under WOT, but it's still there at other points on and off as well. I swapped the MAF from my '01 and still the same issues.

Any recommendations are appreciated. I just want to drive this car and ENJOY it again

[V]

have you checked the coils? My SS had weird sputtering misfiring. I had MSD coils with less than 5k miles. I swapped in a set of used stock ones and it ran great after that.

[GhostDakota]

Originally Posted by V

have you checked the coils? My SS had weird sputtering misfiring. I had MSD coils with less than 5k miles. I swapped in a set of used stock ones and it ran great after that.

I haven't. What's the best way to test the coils aside from licking my finger and touching it? lol..

[BonzoHansen]

So it has new wires, new plugs, no change? No issue at idle even giveng it gas, so it needs load to create the problem? how many miels on the new plugs? you might be able to look at the plug and see if a cyl is laying down on you

smack the cats with your hand and listen for rattles. too bad you don; thav ethose back 02s in, they'd tell you.

when is the last time the fuel flter was changed?

[GhostDakota]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

So it has new wires, new plugs, no change? No issue at idle even giveng it gas, so it needs load to create the problem? how many miels on the new plugs? you might be able to look at the plug and see if a cyl is laying down on you

smack the cats with your hand and listen for rattles. too bad you don; thav ethose back 02s in, they'd tell you.

when is the last time the fuel flter was changed?

I just installed the new plugs and wires on Sunday. I drove 25 miles home on them and have not driven the car since. The odd thing is, load is not required. Sometimes I can do a cold start up and it is fine, other times it's instantly sputtering - but not blinking the SES.

All 4 o2s are in place (Pass/driver, up and downstream). The only one currently disconnected is the pass. upstream o2 as it ran best with that one unplugged.

I doubt the fuel filter has been changed. Is it on the frame rail like most vehicles?

[WildBillyT]

Any codes for your front O2s?

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by GhostDakota

I just installed the new plugs and wires on Sunday. I drove 25 miles home on them and have not driven the car since. The odd thing is, load is not required. Sometimes I can do a cold start up and it is fine, other times it's instantly sputtering - but not blinking the SES.

All 4 o2s are in place (Pass/driver, up and downstream). The only one currently disconnected is the pass. upstream o2 as it ran best with that one unplugged.

I doubt the fuel filter has been changed. Is it on the frame rail like most vehicles?

pull the plugs look for one that is different colors than the others. that might pinpoint a bad coil/plug/wire

wait, you have a front O2 unplugged???????? and that made it run better? Is that right?

Yes, filter is low & in the back - RH side IIRC. Quick release on one side, flare on the other.

[GhostDakota]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Any codes for your front O2s?

Codes:
P0420 - Catalyst Efficieny below threshold Bank 1
P0300 - Random misfire detected
P0140 - o2 Sensor No Activity Detected (from when I disconnected the one o2 sensor)

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

pull the plugs look for one that is different colors than the others. that might pinpoint a bad coil/plug/wire

wait, you have a front O2 unplugged???????? and that made it run better? Is that right?

Yes, filter is low & in the back - RH side IIRC. Quick release on one side, flare on the other.

Even with only 25 miles? That was such a PITA and I never want to do that again lol. My damn hands are too big.

Yes, the front o2 is unplugged and it ran a lot better with it like that. On my Jeeps at least, if the front o2 is not reading/unplugged, the computer will run a pre-programmed setting.

I'll check the filter, thanks!

[BonzoHansen]

you need to fix the issue related to the front O2 sensor. those are important. unplugging a sensor is never the right answer. at least plug it back in, clear the codes. I'd change that filter first, if for S&Gs.

yes, 25 crappy miles may be enough to show a dirty plug.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by GhostDakota

Codes:
P0420 - Catalyst Efficieny below threshold Bank 1
P0300 - Random misfire detected
P0140 - o2 Sensor No Activity Detected (from when I disconnected the one o2 sensor)






Even with only 25 miles? That was such a PITA and I never want to do that again lol. My damn hands are too big.

Yes, the front o2 is unplugged and it ran a lot better with it like that. On my Jeeps at least, if the front o2 is not reading/unplugged, the computer will run a pre-programmed setting.

I'll check the filter, thanks!

Disconnecting the front O2 will put you into open loop, which kind of isolates where the problem may be.

Have you changed anything since it was running well?

[GhostDakota]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

you need to fix the issue related to the front O2 sensor. those are important. unplugging a sensor is never the right answer. at least plug it back in, clear the codes. I'd change that filter first, if for S&Gs.

yes, 25 crappy miles may be enough to show a dirty plug.

Alright, I'll plug it back in - I don't have a lift or jack at home (I live in a condo with a gated parking lot where we can't do work to our vehicles). I've been bugging my buddy to use his shop and lift, but he's a good 1.5 hours away so it's a bitch of a drive with it running like this.

I'll look for a fuel filter, thanks.

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Disconnecting the front O2 will put you into open loop, which kind of isolates where the problem may be.

Have you changed anything since it was running well?

Exactly - I meant loop lol. Thanks.

Nothing was changed to the vehicle between when it was running well (with the SES light on) and when it stopped running well.

[grazi]

MIne did somethign similiar when my cat was plugged. I used an infrared thermometer to compare the temp difference between the front and back of the cat. Mine was about 400 degrees difference. I think I remember reading that there should only be a 50 degree difference. Someone can correct em if I'm wrong. But mine wasnt throwing any codes.
I gutted it and it's ran perfect since.

[GhostDakota]

Originally Posted by grazi

MIne did somethign similiar when my cat was plugged. I used an infrared thermometer to compare the temp difference between the front and back of the cat. Mine was about 400 degrees difference. I think I remember reading that there should only be a 50 degree difference. Someone can correct em if I'm wrong. But mine wasnt throwing any codes.
I gutted it and it's ran perfect since.

****, I knew I was forgetting something! My g/f is a chef and has an infrared thermometer. I need to pick up a 9V battery and test that out. Did you let it fully warm up? I have a 160* t-stat so the motor doesn't get "too hot"..., but I'm sure the exhaust is still quite hot.

[grazi]

Yeah, I let mine warm up. The 160 will be water temp but that exhaust is going to be real hot.I believe my header side got around 800 and the muffler side stayed around 400.

[sweetbmxrider]

You have a cat code, do you have cats on the car? I would bang on them. If you hear any rattling, its the honeycomb that broke apart and is now clogging your exhaust system. This will certainly cause running issues especially the way you are describing. Hell, you could just pull the front o2's, starting with the driver side, and see if it runs better. This will tell you if you have a clogged cat.

[coolmanvette75]

P0420 is the bank 1 cat. I get these codes at work all the time and 99% of the time the cat is clogged

[GhostDakota]

o2's are in. Cats seemed okay by hitting on them. No broken honeycomb noise that I could ascertain.

Drove to my buddies. He is a mechanic for UPS. It was approx. a 35 minute drive. Car was fine for 3 minutes then went to misfire. It mainly misfires above 25 MPH, typically in the higher gears and higher RPMs. On the highway it's almost a constant misfire (CEL blinking) until I drop down below 25 MPH and then eventually it stops blinking, though I still feel the misfire.

Checked the passenger side cat - it's okay. Didn't get a chance to check driver side cat. We did check both cats with my g/f's infrared thermometer. Driver side was 475, passenger side 375. Between the front/back of the cats it was only approx. 40-60* max. Here's where things get odd though...

We figured we would test the injectors, coil packs, etc. While the car was running we pulled one injector (the wiring obviously) at a time. Each injector, when unplugged, caused the motor to drop and run worse than it already was. That was, until we got to cylinder 5. When we pulled the plug on cylinder 5, nothing happened. We swapped coil packs quick to see if it was related to the coil. The problem did not move.

We swapped the #5 injector to a Ford injector that was the same clip/setup, just to see what happened. Started up the car and my CEL turned off. (It's showing a P0420 for the o2, and a random cylinder misfire btw). The problem got worse. We put the stock injector back in to #5. CEL came back on.

Ohmed out the injectors. All were around 13.1, though on cylinder 5 we had a a reading of 14.2 and also 13.2.

I drove to Pep Boys just to get some Sea Foam for S&G's. Left my buddies, drove the 5 minutes there. Car drove like ****. Went inside, no Sea Foam, came out. Started the car and it drove perfect for about 5 minutes. Then back into crap. 10 more minutes and I was at Advance Auto. Went in, got Sea Foam, came back outside. Car drove great for 5 more minutes, then back to crap again.

Bad injector? Something internal? Something else?? I just sold my Jeep and it's too cold for the bike so I NEED to get this car up and running as it's my DD now 'til I pick up a new Jeep. Thanks...

[JL8Jeff]

Check things like the AIR check valves to make sure they are working properly. I've seen a few of the AIR check valves stop working and it allows air into the exhaust that the computer isn't expecting and will throw off the O2 readings and make the computer make bad adjustments. Also, did the car really have 2 different types of plugs in it? The AC's look like platinum or irridium, but the NGK's look like regular plugs. Also check the EVAP lines and valves to make sure it's not sucking additional air constantly from the tank. It almost sounds like you have a vacuum/air leak on the driver's side throwing off the O2 readings and the cat is running hotter as well.

[GhostDakota]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

Check things like the AIR check valves to make sure they are working properly. I've seen a few of the AIR check valves stop working and it allows air into the exhaust that the computer isn't expecting and will throw off the O2 readings and make the computer make bad adjustments. Also, did the car really have 2 different types of plugs in it? The AC's look like platinum or irridium, but the NGK's look like regular plugs. Also check the EVAP lines and valves to make sure it's not sucking additional air constantly from the tank. It almost sounds like you have a vacuum/air leak on the driver's side throwing off the O2 readings and the cat is running hotter as well.

It's funny you mention a vacuum leak. Check this out:

I was fixing my driver side headlight motor gear and noticed these tubes just chilling (Pardon the cell phone shot):


One smaller tube attaches to the large tube and goes back towards the wheel well and is attached. Another smaller tube is also attached to the large tube (on the side) which you can see and goes to nothing at the moment.

I taped up the end so it's not open to air at the moment.

[Mike]

What about the open hole in your exhaust manifold in your very first picture

[GhostDakota]

Originally Posted by Mike

What about the open hole in your exhaust manifold in your very first picture

That was only to access the spark plugs/wires.

Here's a quick cell phone video of some revs and idle - I can take other videos as needed and use the GoPro. I just unplugged the AIR fuse and relay (Since my system is missing due to the prior owner) then started it up like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n_8yLhQNtU

[V]

can you find/identify that open piping in this pic?

[GhostDakota]

It looks like 18 & 11. I'm pretty sure the prior owner attempted to remove the AIR system? If that's the case, should I have unplugged the AIR pump relay and fuse, or just the fuse?

[V]

the AIR system should be turned off in the PCM if it has been removed, I'm not sure if a fuse will properly disconnect it

[sweetbmxrider]

Can you get a noid light to make sure the injector is being pulsed and you don't have a broken wire or something?