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10-12-2017, 11:14 PM
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#1
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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fuel pump prime / cold start
On my 1997 Formula, the fuel pump prime seems to be high pitched for a split second before it sounds normal. I then have to hold the key in the start position for a full second before it fires up (used to be a half second cranking). Any ideas before I start guessing again? Already had the fuel pump replaced 5 years ago....could it be the fuel pressure regulator? I guess I should probably hook a fuel pressure gauge to it (or worst case, take it to a shop only to be told nothing is wrong even though I am sure something is wrong as it has not done this before).
Today I tried priming 3 times before starting. Only the first prime sounded abnormal with the high pitch. 2nd and 3rd primes sounded normal but the cold start still took a good second of cranking before it fires up. Once running, no sputtering or anything, car runs smooth at idle and strong when moderate to WOT, never runs rough or stalls. No SES light either.
I was thinking maybe there is a leak somewhere but I don't smell any gas in my garage where my car stays when not in use.
I may just take it to the dealer and see if they can thoroughly check the fuel system (maybe there is a leak I am unaware of). Or does anyone know a good shop in Central NJ that knows these cars / LT1's?
Car has 38000 miles, and other than the weird initial pump noise, the car runs awesome...
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Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
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10-13-2017, 06:34 AM
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#2
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Mongo the Meet Coordinator
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16,899
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I would just put a fuel pressure gauge on it. Verify either its not building pressure, or bleeding off too fast.
Can you pull the vacuum line off the fuel reg and smell for fuel?
Do you know what the shop replaced the fuel pump with brand wise?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkEvil
repo bigals turd gen and part it out to a loving home
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10-13-2017, 02:17 PM
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#3
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 1,634
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Sounds like the fuel line pressure is bleeding off when the car's off. The high pitched sound is the pump running against zero pressure initially.
It's not supposed to bleed off that much, though.
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1998 Z-28 - SLP lid - Ported TB - LS6 Intake - Dynatech SS headers/Catted Y - Magnaflow Exh - 3.42 - Yank SS3600 - UMI weld-in subframe connectors, Adj LCA, Adj PHB, Q1A TA - Bolt-in Relocation Brackets - Strano springs - Koni shocks - 17" C6Z06 wheels - 326HP/335ft-lbs - 12.35 @ 110.41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6
I can appreciate a dream but this person needed some real friends.
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10-13-2017, 06:30 PM
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#4
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTb1ow
I would just put a fuel pressure gauge on it. Verify either its not building pressure, or bleeding off too fast.
Can you pull the vacuum line off the fuel reg and smell for fuel?
Do you know what the shop replaced the fuel pump with brand wise?
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Since it was done at the dealer, I hope it was an AC Delco!
And they did not cut a hole in the back.....I made sure they actually drop the tank instead.
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Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
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10-13-2017, 11:53 PM
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#5
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^^^Lover of bad cars^^^ Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Whitehouse Station
Posts: 2,255
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1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel
2000 Trans Am M6 - Mods: Yes.
2018 Durango R/T - AFE Intake, JLT Catch Can, Stainless Works Catback, Vinyl Dodge Racing Stripes
2003 Toyota Matrix XRS M6 - Lol
Last edited by ThoR294; 10-13-2017 at 11:53 PM.
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10-17-2017, 03:53 PM
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#6
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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So it's with the dealer, and of course they check the fuel pressure and it all checks out (the issues don't happen on a warm engine, only on a "left-overnight" cold engine so they are keeping it overnight and will try to replicate the issue first thing tomorrow).
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Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
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10-18-2017, 12:16 PM
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#7
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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Just got a call.....they say it's the fuel pump.
What causes these pumps to prematurely go bad?
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Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
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10-19-2017, 06:56 AM
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#8
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^^^Lover of bad cars^^^ Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Whitehouse Station
Posts: 2,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Formula
Just got a call.....they say it's the fuel pump.
What causes these pumps to prematurely go bad?
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bad fuel pump
__________________
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel
2000 Trans Am M6 - Mods: Yes.
2018 Durango R/T - AFE Intake, JLT Catch Can, Stainless Works Catback, Vinyl Dodge Racing Stripes
2003 Toyota Matrix XRS M6 - Lol
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10-19-2017, 07:10 AM
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#9
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Mongo the Meet Coordinator
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16,899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Formula
Just got a call.....they say it's the fuel pump.
What causes these pumps to prematurely go bad?
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Was it a infant mortality thing? Sounds like it was done a while ago, which IMO just adds to the argument that ACdelco is no longer the quality name it used to be. China is really good at copying and pasting so a knock off could have been used as well.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkEvil
repo bigals turd gen and part it out to a loving home
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10-20-2017, 06:24 AM
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#10
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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Pump was replaced 5 years ago and only got 7000 miles out of this one.
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Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
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10-20-2017, 09:47 AM
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#11
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Mongo the Meet Coordinator
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16,899
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IMO, drive it more. Or at least cycle the pump every once in awhile.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkEvil
repo bigals turd gen and part it out to a loving home
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10-21-2017, 06:14 PM
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#12
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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New pump installed by dealer, failed during road test.
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Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
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10-21-2017, 09:58 PM
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#13
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^^^Lover of bad cars^^^ Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Whitehouse Station
Posts: 2,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Formula
New pump installed by dealer, failed during road test. ![Sad](http://www.njfboa.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
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did they test all the wiring/relays?
__________________
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel
2000 Trans Am M6 - Mods: Yes.
2018 Durango R/T - AFE Intake, JLT Catch Can, Stainless Works Catback, Vinyl Dodge Racing Stripes
2003 Toyota Matrix XRS M6 - Lol
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10-22-2017, 02:10 AM
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#14
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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I'm pretty sure they did. I'm also pretty sure these pumps are total garbage as this is actually my 4th pump (lifetime warranty on just the pump, but not the labor).
Is there a better brand or part number I should request?
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Click here for my vBGarage!
Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
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10-22-2017, 08:28 AM
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#15
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 1,634
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When I changed my pump out I did the racetronix kit; hot wire and pump setup, a 255 lph pump.
It's pretty hard/impossible to get a quality stock pump for these cars any longer.
Edit: Assuming you're running an LT1 setup, this would be your monkey:
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.a...A-003A&eq=&Tp=
This kit will make sure the pump sees full alternator voltage, and only uses the stock wiring to actuate a relay:
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.a...WH-003&eq=&Tp=
__________________
1998 Z-28 - SLP lid - Ported TB - LS6 Intake - Dynatech SS headers/Catted Y - Magnaflow Exh - 3.42 - Yank SS3600 - UMI weld-in subframe connectors, Adj LCA, Adj PHB, Q1A TA - Bolt-in Relocation Brackets - Strano springs - Koni shocks - 17" C6Z06 wheels - 326HP/335ft-lbs - 12.35 @ 110.41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6
I can appreciate a dream but this person needed some real friends.
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Last edited by The_Bishop; 10-22-2017 at 08:33 AM.
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10-22-2017, 10:14 AM
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#16
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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Darn it!
I wish I still had the original pump with the fuel gauge sending unit, as the gauge has been reading between 3/4 and F when in fact it is full (ever since the first pump replacement).
The original sending unit was more accurate and told me it was full when it was actually full.
So now I am basically screwed......the lifetime guarantee is a guaranteed piece of......
__________________
Click here for my vBGarage!
Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
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10-22-2017, 10:52 AM
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#17
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^^^Lover of bad cars^^^ Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Whitehouse Station
Posts: 2,255
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If my pump goes again, I am definitely doing the racetronix like bishop posted.
i have never had an accurate fuel gauge in an fbody lol. my 94 formula I ran out of gas at a 1/4 tank...
__________________
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel
2000 Trans Am M6 - Mods: Yes.
2018 Durango R/T - AFE Intake, JLT Catch Can, Stainless Works Catback, Vinyl Dodge Racing Stripes
2003 Toyota Matrix XRS M6 - Lol
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10-22-2017, 11:46 AM
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#18
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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This is going to be quite the challenge asking my GM dealer to use a non-GM part and telling them why (because the replacement AC Delco pumps are junk)....
I asked them yesterday to look into alternate fuel pumps that are more reliable. This lifetime guarantee is a lifetime disappointment, as it does not cover labor (which is very expensive).
__________________
Click here for my vBGarage!
Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
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10-22-2017, 04:00 PM
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#19
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Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: brick/pt. pleasant beach
Posts: 19,341
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10-22-2017, 06:13 PM
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#20
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 1,634
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I run away from dealers like I'm covered in gasoline and they're a giant match unless I absolutely need to deal with them for warranty work. Then I watch them with a microscope.
Also: Lifetime warranty doesn't mean jack if it needs $300 in labor to replace a $150 part that keeps failing, and the labor isn't covered.
__________________
1998 Z-28 - SLP lid - Ported TB - LS6 Intake - Dynatech SS headers/Catted Y - Magnaflow Exh - 3.42 - Yank SS3600 - UMI weld-in subframe connectors, Adj LCA, Adj PHB, Q1A TA - Bolt-in Relocation Brackets - Strano springs - Koni shocks - 17" C6Z06 wheels - 326HP/335ft-lbs - 12.35 @ 110.41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6
I can appreciate a dream but this person needed some real friends.
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10-22-2017, 07:13 PM
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#21
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
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I had no idea this GM part has such a high failure rate. I figured "how can you go wrong? it's a GM part for my GM car."
Is there a GM customer service number I can call to voice my concern / dissapointment?
__________________
Click here for my vBGarage!
Moroso CAI, Hypertech air charger, HPP+ w/160* powerstat, 1LE elbow, Relocated IAT sensor, Spintech muffler, Hotchkis chrome strut tower brace
Last edited by 97Formula; 10-22-2017 at 07:15 PM.
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10-22-2017, 09:02 PM
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#22
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Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: brick/pt. pleasant beach
Posts: 19,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Formula
I had no idea this GM part has such a high failure rate. I figured "how can you go wrong? it's a GM part for my GM car."
Is there a GM customer service number I can call to voice my concern / dissapointment?
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It is an Ac Delco part.
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10-23-2017, 01:17 PM
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#23
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Admin.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Formula
This is going to be quite the challenge asking my GM dealer to use a non-GM part and telling them why (because the replacement AC Delco pumps are junk)....
I asked them yesterday to look into alternate fuel pumps that are more reliable. This lifetime guarantee is a lifetime disappointment, as it does not cover labor (which is very expensive).
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The only reason they might agree is because they are tired of your car and want it gone for good. Because you will have zero warranty after that. Your part, your problem, bye bye
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The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.
Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.
Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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10-23-2017, 02:36 PM
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#24
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^^^Lover of bad cars^^^ Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Whitehouse Station
Posts: 2,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonzoHansen
The only reason they might agree is because they are tired of your car and want it gone for good. Because you will have zero warranty after that. Your part, your problem, bye bye
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I'm sure they have some liability somewhere. They could fudge the install
__________________
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel
2000 Trans Am M6 - Mods: Yes.
2018 Durango R/T - AFE Intake, JLT Catch Can, Stainless Works Catback, Vinyl Dodge Racing Stripes
2003 Toyota Matrix XRS M6 - Lol
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10-23-2017, 03:35 PM
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#25
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Admin.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoR294
I'm sure they have some liability somewhere. They could fudge the install
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lol. maybe a 30 day labor warranty.
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.
Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.
Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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