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04-07-2012, 01:46 PM
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#1
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Matamoras Pa.
Posts: 434
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Newly Cammed LT1 Runs Poorly In Closed Loop
Recently I installed my CC503 cam with all the supporting mods, (Ultra Pro Mag rockers, hardend pushrods, Comp 918 springs, etc). For now I have a tune from MadZ28. Initially the car started right up and idled perfectly. However on my first drive I noticed that it suddenly took a turn for the worse and started backfiring, and popping and would barely want to move. I brought it back and scanned it while running and noticed an insane amount of knock, which I presumed was being detected from the new rockers and valvetrain noise, which in turn was retarding the timing. So I ordered a LT4 knock module and adjusted the valves correctly.
I put the module in and it started right up again and seemded to run better. I went to go around the block after it warmed up and it started popping and backfiring once again, exactly like it had. I scanned it again and noticed there is a constant 4 degrees of retard at idle and slightly less but still alarminly high knock count (7k now 22k before).
The Opti in the car has maybe 5k miles on it and it 2 years old. The ICM, anc coil are both relatively new as well (last 2 years). It is a night and day difference between open and closed loop tough so I am figuring it has to be some type of sensor that doesnt activate until its in closed loop. I am not sure where to go from here so any help would be appreciated. Thanks guys.
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1994 Z28 A4, Magnaflow, TTII'S, CC503, 1.6' RR, MadZ Tune, Pacesetter Lt's, 3'' ORY, K&N CAI, Free Mods, Nitto Dr's.
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04-07-2012, 04:22 PM
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#2
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Matamoras Pa.
Posts: 434
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Heres a screen shot of me datalogging in before the lt4 knock module 
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1994 Z28 A4, Magnaflow, TTII'S, CC503, 1.6' RR, MadZ Tune, Pacesetter Lt's, 3'' ORY, K&N CAI, Free Mods, Nitto Dr's.
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04-07-2012, 05:16 PM
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#3
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Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: brick/pt. pleasant beach
Posts: 19,341
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o2 sensors are a likely candidate but the screenshot doesn't really tell you anything.
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04-07-2012, 05:37 PM
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#4
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Morris County
Posts: 1,033
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Isnt AF gallons per second at idle supposed to be around 6-10?
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94 Trans am 25th anniversary
86 Buick Regal T-type
73 camaro 454/T56 work in progress.
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04-07-2012, 05:51 PM
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#5
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Matamoras Pa.
Posts: 434
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I do have a datalog as well. I was thinking o2 sensors as well but I'm not sure
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1994 Z28 A4, Magnaflow, TTII'S, CC503, 1.6' RR, MadZ Tune, Pacesetter Lt's, 3'' ORY, K&N CAI, Free Mods, Nitto Dr's.
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04-09-2012, 11:07 AM
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#6
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Sliderule / Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Catawissa PA
Posts: 2,294
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If it idles fine, and runs "fairly well" under light throttle, and you have the rockers adjusted properly, then I'd bet on you either have plug wires crossed, not clipped into the opti well, or even a burnt wire. Crossed wires is so easy and so common. Check them very closely!
I set the 918's set at 180 install height, and at 1/4 turn past 0 lash.
I'd also suggest you check for a vacuum leak and check the injectors are properly wired - didn't swap connections. Also check the wire to the knock sensor itself. I had a burnt wire that was arcing to the knock sensor and the car had fits as soon as it went into closed loop!
Scan the car while driving and post the file, or send it to me and I'll look at it.
__________________
93Z M6 Black: The 385 Lives! Supercharged, 3-core front mount intercooler, GTP heads, 3:73's, Street twin clutch, Jethot Longtubes, Mufflex 4" catback/spintech, S+W cage, Spohn Suspenion, Yada Yada Yada
1) Build it
2) Race it
3) Break it
4) Repeat!!!
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04-09-2012, 11:22 AM
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#7
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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If you email it to me I will post it here.
I take it this car is a 'Vette?
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04-09-2012, 11:35 AM
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#8
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The Mayor / 2009 Member of the Year / Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northwest
Posts: 8,866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT
If you email it to me I will post it here.
I take it this car is a 'Vette?
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It's a 94 Z28
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1995 Z28 Convertible A4 13.78 @ 100 (CAI, high flow cat, catback, 160 thermo, hypertech, Strano springs, Koni yellows, sway bars, 3 pt. UMI SFC)
2018 Sea Doo GTX - 3 cylinders and das boooooost
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonzoHansen
Is English your 2nd language? Did you graduate high school? Your posts make my head hurt.
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 Team FARM 
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04-09-2012, 11:54 AM
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#9
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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Datamaster is not using the right variables then. Won't effect the scan too much on certain things but it's set for a Y-Body.
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04-09-2012, 06:47 PM
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#10
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Matamoras Pa.
Posts: 434
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Yeah I saw that it was for the wrong car. I did check the plug wires and connections and they're all good. It is a night and day difference from open to closed loop though and something like that wouldnt be so different. I'll send the file to your email
__________________
1994 Z28 A4, Magnaflow, TTII'S, CC503, 1.6' RR, MadZ Tune, Pacesetter Lt's, 3'' ORY, K&N CAI, Free Mods, Nitto Dr's.
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04-09-2012, 08:11 PM
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#11
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11 second club / Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: West Berlin, NJ
Posts: 7,148
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I had a similar problem and it seemed to be discovered that i crossed a set of injector wires.
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2001 Trans Am WS6 •SLP Loudmouth II •UMI Suspension •12.857 @ 109.57
1996 Trans Am WS6 •Pacesetter Longtubes •Strange 12 Bolt •Spohn Suspension •11.152 @ 123.85
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04-10-2012, 11:13 AM
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#12
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Matamoras Pa.
Posts: 434
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I have checked the injector wires and they seem fine. I just did another datalog of the car. I unplugged the temp sensor and the car didnt start so I plugged it back in. I then got code 15 (coolant temp low, expected) and code 16, the code no one ever wants to see.
Heres what I dont understand. 1. I cleared both codes and both went away and didnt come back so was it a hiccup? 2. If this was an Opti problem, why would it only happen in closed loop (literally a night and day difference). 3. Did me unplugging the temp sensor cause the code 16 possibly? 4. If I did have an Opti problem wouldnt the code stay there? I sent the datalogs to WildBillyT so he can put them up here for me because I dont know where to go from here.
__________________
1994 Z28 A4, Magnaflow, TTII'S, CC503, 1.6' RR, MadZ Tune, Pacesetter Lt's, 3'' ORY, K&N CAI, Free Mods, Nitto Dr's.
Last edited by 1994lt1; 04-10-2012 at 11:26 AM.
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04-10-2012, 11:17 AM
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#13
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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04-10-2012, 11:37 AM
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#14
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Sliderule / Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Catawissa PA
Posts: 2,294
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Thanks Bill, I'll try to look at them when I get home tonight.
TEMP sensor should not prevent the car from starting? Is the opti harness in tight? how about the ign module connetions and ground?
__________________
93Z M6 Black: The 385 Lives! Supercharged, 3-core front mount intercooler, GTP heads, 3:73's, Street twin clutch, Jethot Longtubes, Mufflex 4" catback/spintech, S+W cage, Spohn Suspenion, Yada Yada Yada
1) Build it
2) Race it
3) Break it
4) Repeat!!!
Last edited by Pampered-Z; 04-10-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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04-10-2012, 12:11 PM
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#15
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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You are getting KR even in open loop so something is defiently up.
Is your MAF clean? Does it still have the screen?
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04-10-2012, 01:21 PM
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#16
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Matamoras Pa.
Posts: 434
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MAF is clean and stock. I cleaned it when I had it out for the cam swap.
__________________
1994 Z28 A4, Magnaflow, TTII'S, CC503, 1.6' RR, MadZ Tune, Pacesetter Lt's, 3'' ORY, K&N CAI, Free Mods, Nitto Dr's.
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04-10-2012, 01:30 PM
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#17
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Matamoras Pa.
Posts: 434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampered-Z
Thanks Bill, I'll try to look at them when I get home tonight.
TEMP sensor should not prevent the car from starting? Is the opti harness in tight? how about the ign module connetions and ground?
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It started (kinda) but it didnt want to be running thats for sure. When I unplugged it the reading the PCM was getting was -44... Ignition modules and grounds have all been checked when I first experienced the problem. ICM isnt old as well.
__________________
1994 Z28 A4, Magnaflow, TTII'S, CC503, 1.6' RR, MadZ Tune, Pacesetter Lt's, 3'' ORY, K&N CAI, Free Mods, Nitto Dr's.
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04-11-2012, 09:04 PM
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#18
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Matamoras Pa.
Posts: 434
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PamperedZ have you gotten the chance to look at the logs? I'm dying want to drive this car so badly
__________________
1994 Z28 A4, Magnaflow, TTII'S, CC503, 1.6' RR, MadZ Tune, Pacesetter Lt's, 3'' ORY, K&N CAI, Free Mods, Nitto Dr's.
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04-18-2012, 03:40 PM
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#19
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Sliderule / Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Catawissa PA
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1994lt1
PamperedZ have you gotten the chance to look at the logs? I'm dying want to drive this car so badly
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Sorry got sent out of state, will try ASAP to get to it.
__________________
93Z M6 Black: The 385 Lives! Supercharged, 3-core front mount intercooler, GTP heads, 3:73's, Street twin clutch, Jethot Longtubes, Mufflex 4" catback/spintech, S+W cage, Spohn Suspenion, Yada Yada Yada
1) Build it
2) Race it
3) Break it
4) Repeat!!!
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04-23-2012, 02:17 PM
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#20
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Sliderule / Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Catawissa PA
Posts: 2,294
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PM sent. Initial file doesn't look too bad, but I would like more data if possible.
__________________
93Z M6 Black: The 385 Lives! Supercharged, 3-core front mount intercooler, GTP heads, 3:73's, Street twin clutch, Jethot Longtubes, Mufflex 4" catback/spintech, S+W cage, Spohn Suspenion, Yada Yada Yada
1) Build it
2) Race it
3) Break it
4) Repeat!!!
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04-23-2012, 09:00 PM
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#21
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11 Second Club
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampered-Z
Thanks Bill, I'll try to look at them when I get home tonight.
TEMP sensor should not prevent the car from starting? Is the opti harness in tight? how about the ign module connetions and ground?
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Yeah the car wouldn't start if the the ECM is seeing -44d. It will just dump fuel into the motor trying to start and wont.
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2004 GTO GMM shifter Spohn stuff, tint and my love......
1988 Camaro Vert -Sold
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04-24-2012, 07:53 AM
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#22
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brick, NJ
Posts: 1,868
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what program did you guys use to view those logs. I can't get them to open
__________________
Formerly known as blk95formula
86t/a_ram_air on TGO
2018 Silverado 1500
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04-24-2012, 08:26 AM
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#23
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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TTS Datamaster
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04-24-2012, 08:34 AM
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#24
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brick, NJ
Posts: 1,868
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used to have that on my other computer.
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Formerly known as blk95formula
86t/a_ram_air on TGO
2018 Silverado 1500
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04-24-2012, 12:09 PM
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#25
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Matamoras Pa.
Posts: 434
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Well I took it to a shop and unfortunately I don't think he got it. He thought it was because I have a bad plug wire on the p.s. This wouldn't make sense to me because it changes to drastically. I was talked into bringing it home and checking the timing which me ans I have to remove the front cover again...crap. Either that or an opti problem im guessing now.
__________________
1994 Z28 A4, Magnaflow, TTII'S, CC503, 1.6' RR, MadZ Tune, Pacesetter Lt's, 3'' ORY, K&N CAI, Free Mods, Nitto Dr's.
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