Audio Gremlins

[SpeakersGoBoom]

Ok, this is my situation.
When I bought the car, it already had a pretty decent sound system in it.
-UT-4 Stock tape deck head unit (the nice one with the 5 band equalizer)
-Stock 4 speakers upgraded
-Stock amplifier in dashboard w/ stock bass gain control and cutoff switch(not connected)
-What appears to be 800w from 2 amps in the trunk. (Kenwood is one, the other i think is a company called "Majestik" or somethign like that. anyone ever heard of it?)
-2 10" subwoofers (kicker) in a ported box.

A little while after I bought it, the FR speaker started to go. sounded like crap. I ignored it for a while (somewhat tight funds, but nothing compared to what im in now) until the subs started to sound like crap. Not having any time to do it myself, i took it to the audio shop in fairlawn that i go to for them to replace the speakers.
Turns out the paper on the speakers was done from the sun. the speakers appeared to be as old as 9 years (thats when the guy said he used to deal with those types of speakers. dont remember what kind the front were)

The subs were replaced with 10" aluminum subs from Diesel Audio. 600w max each. The front two were replaced with vynal speakers. dont remember the brand name, but they were 250w max each. At that time, i decided to start looking for a cd player

A few months later (very end of summer/beginning of school) the rear speakers went. started out with, if i remember correctly, the RL sounding fine and the RR sounding low (litterally, low volume), then it deteriorated to RL sounding low, and RR being dead. finally, it progressed to both being dead.

Not giving it much thought, i assumed that it was from age, and replaced the speakers. No name brand 4 way speakers I had lying around the house. 250w each. That did nothing. Again, ran out of time after that weekend between school and work, so i had to take it in for repairs. After probably 4 hours of work, the shop determined that there was nothing they could do more than get a very low sound back to the speaker. feeling that they didnt do anything, they didnt charge me (sweet, sort of)

Continue driving along, and now the FL speaker sounds low, and teh FR speaker starts to sound like pure garbage. I bring up the point to my father that its as if the FL, RL, and RR speakers are UNDERPOWERED, while the FR was OVERPOWERED. He came to the conclusion that I was somewhere between stupid and crazy.

I pull out the radio, and down drops a black box that was tucked underneith the climate control unit. Turns out to be some sort of distribution control, with apparantly all of the power set to go to the FR speaker (HA! WHOS NUTS NOW?!) I adjust it, and the sound balances out (for the front two. the back 2 are still almost mute) although the damage was done to the FR. I take it to the shop (speakers under warranty) and they replace it free of charge.

I purchase and instal the CD Player. Delco Pontiac Monsoon w/ 7 band equalizer from a 00 T/A

Recently, my left sub stops working. upon some experimentation with the wires, I come to the conclusion that the amp is bad on one channel.

Within the past few days, the FL speaker starts to sound like crap.

Within the past TWO days, at times ALL of the speakers begin to sound underpowered and crappy. When the radio is turned off and turned on again, the crappy sound continues. When the CAR is turned off and turned on again, that seems to fix the problem.

I am currently looking for a new amp, and am going to take the car back to the shop to get it checked out, but a thought came into my head that maybe there are problems with the electrical system. Does anyone have any ideas/experiences that sound like this one? I see no point in spending a few hundred for a good amp and replacing the speakers if it doesnt do anything, just destroys the new stuff, or gets even worse than it is.

BTW, I really have no idea about the electrical system in the car. As Trans Am Chick and TPI Monte SS can attest to, the wire harness is laughable/sickening. its the clip, about 1 to 1 1/2 inches of wire, and then it just breaks off into EVERYTHING! Crimps, splicers, electrical tape (think i even saw some DUCT TAPE in there!) and some other things that I dont ever remember seeing before. It became pretty obvious that the harness was worked on when i found that control unit, and there may be even more that i dont know about...unless that control unit was stock, which i doubt, but i guess anythings possible. I'm considering looking up Vito (dude who owned the car before me. Even wrote his name on the doors) and asking him if he remembers what he did to teh car. Anyway, does anyone have any ideas as to what i might be able to do? I'm pretty much stumped. I dont want to get a new wire harness and redo the car, but i may have to...
Like i said, any ideas? thanks!

[Trick Star]

I would rewire the entire system for starters. It's so much easier to remove it all and start from scratch than it is to chase gremlins.

Which harnesses are cut up? Is it just the audio stuff or more throughout the car?

How hard are you on the system? Turning it up too much, distortion, speakers rattling? Are the amps shutting down from being driven too hard?

BTW, I've been installing mobile electronics for 15 years. Although I haven't been involved in stereo systems for about 5 years, I'm sure not much has changed.

[SpeakersGoBoom]

1) The audio harness. right at the clip where it plugs into the radio.
2) I'm usually not too hard on it. As soon as pretty much ANY volume is turned up, it goes bad.

Right now it is what APPEARS to be the stock harness (because the clip pluged into the original tape deck radio. To connect to the CD player, I built a conversion harness, so if i'm going to switch over, I just want to use one harness, so I'd be looking for the harness with teh right clip. Does anyone sell harnesses that have wires long enough to go through the whole car?

[Trick Star]

Within the past few days, the FL speaker starts to sound like crap.

Within the past TWO days, at times ALL of the speakers begin to sound underpowered and crappy. When the radio is turned off and turned on again, the crappy sound continues. When the CAR is turned off and turned on again, that seems to fix the problem.


It sounds like you may have a shorted speaker causing this. Maybe it sounds almost OK at low volumes but as soon as you turn it up, it sounds bad?

If you have a volt/ohm meter, you could check the speakers and power/ground.

You could also disconnect the rear speakers to see if the sound improves up front and visa verca.

[Trick Star]

I messed up that quote box.

What year and model is your car? Sorry if I missed it in your post but I didn't see it.

[The Fixer]

Originally Posted by SpeakersGoBoom

BTW, I really have no idea about the electrical system in the car. As Trans Am Chick and TPI Monte SS can attest to, the wire harness is laughable/sickening. its the clip, about 1 to 1 1/2 inches of wire, and then it just breaks off into EVERYTHING! Crimps, splicers, electrical tape (think i even saw some DUCT TAPE in there!) and some other things that I dont ever remember seeing before. It became pretty obvious that the harness was worked on when i found that control unit, and there may be even more that i dont know about...unless that control unit was stock, which i doubt, but i guess anythings possible. I dont want to get a new wire harness and redo the car, but i may have to...
Like i said, any ideas? thanks!

Karl, even though your stereo harness is pretty bad, I have seen worse. From what I could tell, everything else in the car was fine, only the audio stuff had been hacked up.

I'll tell ya what I would do. Pull the interior out, and trace all the factory wires for the speakers, and remove them. Honestly, the factory wiring is not decent for a high-powered system like you want to build, so you should replace it with something better. Removing the stock stuff will save you time in the long run, and any future owners of your car will thank you for not leaving them a bastardized mess like you had to deal with.

Run new speaker wires into the dash and rear sides, and splice them into the headunit of your choice. Only use the factory harness for power, ground, memory, and power antenna. Run new cables for the amps with a dedicated feed off the battery (like a top-post style terminal) and a huge ground wire right into the trunk floor.

I think that'll solve your problems, but you may have to wait until you have time off from skool to do it.

[SpeakersGoBoom]

Your probably right. Btw, Trick Star, its an 86 Trans Am with the performance sound package (stock subs, amp in dashboard, etc) The stock subs are gone (thank god)

Also, a thought just came to me. That box in the dash that I mentioned, which controlled the power to each speaker... My front two speakers seam to be DOA, and at least one amp to the trunk is bad. The signal for the subs seems to be comming from the signal for the front two speakers, because when i move the sound all the way to the back, the subs are, essentially, off, and as I move it back, the sound dies down (as do the front speakers) but when i move it all the way to the front, theyre on. Now, that box that I was talking about, which controlls the power to each speaker, i turned it up all the way without thinking, because it didnt seem to be an amp, due to the weight. Or lack of it. can anyone think of a possibility of that box sending too much power to the front and therefore damaging the speakers? the speakers are rated for 250 each in the front and 600 in the trunk, so i doubt a stock cd player, which probably puts out MAXIMUM 15w per channel, is overloading the speakers...but any ideas? Its pointless to put in new speakers if they're just going to blow too.

[SpeakersGoBoom]

Ok, heres the NEW current situation.

Somehow that box seems to be the problem. So i cut it out. I cut all the wires and im just going to connect the wires in the car directly to the harness for the cd player. Front two speakers are good, and ive found the back speaker wires. Now, heres my question. none of the wires in the car are labeled. so, im guessing for some. Heres my guess
Black = ground
Deep pink = 12 volt (closest think i could find to red)
light pink = dimmer

In an 86 Trans am, does anyone know if thats correct? Also, there are two aditional wires, dark blue, and light blue. on the harness, the only wire that would be left over is for power antenna.

Again, anyone have any ideas?

[Trick Star]

This is the factory wiring from memory, don't worry it's correct, I've done way too many. Pathetic, huh?

Orange-Constant 12V+
Yellow-Switched 12V+(Ign./acc)
Black-Ground
Gray-Dimmer circuit
Brown-Parking light circuit(dims the brightness at night)
Pink-Antenna/Amp Trigger(if equipped)

Front speakers:
Left Front (+)-Tan
Left Front (-)-Gray
Right Front (+)-Light Green
Right Front (-)-Dark Green

Rear speakers:
Left Rear (+)-Brown
Left Rear (-)-Yellow
Right Rear (+)-Dark Blue
Right Rear (-)-Light Blue

That box in your dash probably was a line level converter(converts speaker level power to low level amp input power). I've seen many melt downs on the cheapie plastic ones as well as shorts, poor sound, etc. Audio Link makes a great reliable one w/ aluminum construction. I've never seen one of those go bad.

Don't worry about removing the factory wires if you rewire. Just don't use them and tuck the wires/plugs out of way. Secure them to prevent any rattles from the plugs or shorting and you'll be fine.

You can use a regular D cell battery to find the speaker wires in the dash. The speaker will make a little scratch sound when you send the 1.5 volts through it. This comes in handy to test for hookup etc and keep from getting the gray or yellow power wires confused with the speaker wires. While testing with this method, make sure none of the other wires in the dash are touching to keep from getting it wrong anyway.

[SpeakersGoBoom]

which pink is which? there are two. a pink, and a faded, bright pink.

[Trick Star]

I've seen pink used for the batt. 12+ at times. A simple test light or volt/ohn meter will tell you for sure. Check the fuses in case there is no power on either.

To determine power antenna wire(if equipped), clip the clamp of a test light(a reg. bulb one, not an LED type) on 12 volts and touch the point to the wire(s) in question. It will be enough current to trigger the antenna relay but won't cause a problem if it's a ground(just light the test light).

[SpeakersGoBoom]

Well, it didnt work, and so, heres what I have in the car wirewise, i guess if you can make something out of it, great. Pencils ready? Go.

Comming off of the car...
Deep Pink
Light Pink
Dark Green
Light Green
Dark Blue
Light Blue
Yellow
Yellow w/ Stripe
Black
Gray
Gray w/ Stripe
Tan
Grayish Brownish

On a seperate clip...
comming off of the car...
Orange and Brown
plugs into a clip, and at the other end of the clip...
Yellow and orange (respectively)

Ok, the clip to the harness is disgusting. all of the wires seem to be about 2 centimeters long unstil they are crimped onto some other wires., and the wires are more tangled up than christmas lights that were thrown into a box for the year. I cant even keep track of all of them

and the box i was talking about, the brans name is "Music Match"

[Trick Star]

Comming off of the car...
Deep Pink-antenna or amp trigger*see note
Light Pink-antenna or amp trigger*see note
Dark Green-RF sp. -
Light Green-RF sp. +
Dark Blue-RR sp. +
Light Blue-RR sp. -
Yellow-LR sp. -
Yellow w/ Stripe-12+ ign./acc.
Black-ground
Gray-LF sp. -
Gray w/ Stripe-dimmer dash lights
Tan-LF sp. +
Grayish Brownish-LR sp. +

On a seperate clip...
comming off of the car...
Orange and Brown---These are your batt. 12+(orange) and parking light(brown), the yellow and orange on the end were cut off the back of a Delco radio.---
plugs into a clip, and at the other end of the clip...
Yellow and orange (respectively)

Use the battery trick or a test light/meter to confirm the speaker wires and power wires. You don't want to hook these up wrong and there are a few common colors between them.

If your speakers are still connected to the amp, you will need to reconnect them to factory wiring to use the wires already in the dash or run new wires from the speakers right to the radio and wire them to the plug(s) with the diagram I gave you above.

The plugs on the back of the Delco radio work out like this: blue is the rear sp., white is the front sp., black is the power plug. They may 3 seperate plugs or one plug together and in that case the wires are still grouped together(rear sp. in a row together, front sp. in a row together(the same row as the power wires)

When you say it didn't work, what didn't work?

*The amp and power antenna triggers can be differant. The amp trigger output on the radio will always have power whenever the radio or CD is on. The power antenna trigger may only have power output from the radio when the radio is playing, antenna goes down listening to a CD. The replacement radio you are using may not even have both outputs.

[Trick Star]

Oh, don't worry about trying to keep track of all the wires at the same time. Just worry about one or two(when hooking up the speakers) at a time.

[SpeakersGoBoom]

ok, screwed around in there with a 9 volt battery, and heres what i got. you were right about the front two speakers, and you were probably right about the back two...but it doesnt matter. The back two speakers have new wiring stuck in there that i couldnt find before. After one blown fuse, I've found the 12 volt, the ground, and the antenna...but the radio still wont turn on any ideas? And the black box was by music match. Good, bad, indifferent? Anyone?

[Trick Star]

Do you have both powers hooked up? The constant batt + and the ign/acc 12+?

I'll check in on this thread tomorrow. If you'd like, send me a private message or email with your phone # and I can give you a ring tomorrow afternoon to talk you through it.

Music match sounds like an off brand. Never heard of it but I've been out of the stereo portion for a few years so I may be wrong. Odds are if it's plastic construction, it's junk or unreliable at best. Too much heat from resistance to hold up when they're made of plastic.

[SpeakersGoBoom]

well, my cell is 201 562 4397, but im not getting out of work tomorrow until probably like 6PM, and by then it'll be too dark to work on it, but yea. after six, give me a call, that'd be great. Thanks
-Karl

[Trans Am Chick]

just thought i would congradulate you on finally having a radio back.