Clutch Alignment

[bad64chevelle]

Okay I need some help, this is my first manual transmission I am doing so I want to ask for some assistance. I have everything ready to go *I'm pretty sure on that* Flywheel, clutch with plate, all the new ARP bolts to put this thing together, a Lakewood Bell with a motor plate, the St10, I just have NO CLUE how to do this, anyone know of a GOOD writeup on how to do this that I can study, or anyone have some advice for me?

[Pampered-Z]

Don't have a write up, what I remember (Everything I worked in the past years were newer style).

Keep the contact surfaces CLEAN!

** Test fit the pilot bearing and clutch onto on the input shaft before installing, make sure they are the right ones. And don't forget to install the pilot bushing into the crank! ** <- been there, done that!

Little grease on Pilot bearing.

Clutch/To bearing/P.P. Very little bit of grease onto T/O bearing where the clutch forks ride. Note which way the clutch plate goes on, might have an engine facing side? Usually the springs are off set with the offset facing away from the engine, but double check that! Check the T/O bearing; some have egg shaped outer housing where the forks ride.

Make sure you have the alignment tool full engaged.

Again, bolts, locktite, tighten in pattern, torque in steps.

Now is a good time to put in the starter and check if it needs to be shimmed. Normally you can gauge with a paper clip between the teeth.

Remove Alignment tool

Bell housing next, check if clutch fork need to be thru bell housing before being installed? Again, I do allot of LT1s where you need to have the fork in the housing before installing? Little grease on the pivot. bell housing bolts = locktite. Note if you have any wiring that may have hangers that go onto any of the bolts? Probably not for you??

Little grease in the trans splines before installing

Trans in gear, so you can rotate the input shaft but turning the Output shaft to get it engaged in the splines.

And now the fun part, slide trans straight in, try not to wiggle it too much side to side or let it rest on the clutch so you don't damage it. And do not try to force it in. They do sometimes need some effort, but try not to beat it in, and don't use the trans bolts to draw the trans in, If it aint going in, you’re probably not centered in the pilot bearing.

Trans bolts, locktite.

little oil on drive shaft before sliding into trans, then add fluid to trans.

hook up shift, clutch, 500 Easy miles...

[Featherburner]

You should also check the crankshaft centerline to bellhousing bore alignment. You don't want the trans misaligned. Check here for a write up.http://www.lakewoodindustries.com/Ca...andId=5&ID=102.

[bad64chevelle]

Thanks both John's!
Pampered, Im gonna go through that again tomorrow and I will PM you amd make sure I have everything correct before I start
Feather, I saw that the other day. I have to find the right tools to do that first. Ill call my buddy tomorrow and see what he has.

[The Fixer]

Originally Posted by Pampered-Z

They do sometimes need some effort, but try not to beat it in, and don't use the trans bolts to draw the trans in, If it aint going in, you’re probably not centered in the pilot bearing.

Agreed. However, if run into that problem and you've got the clutch linkage installed already and the trans doesn't want to go ~all~ the way in, you can have someone depress the clutch pedal while you push the trans in. Makes life much easier. Good luck with the swap!

[bad64chevelle]

thanks Steve, I did the pedal swap tonight, and will work on setting everything else up when the motor goes in.

[bad64chevelle]

Trans went almost ALL the way in, I need to hook up the linkage today and have someone press the clutch, that should hopefully do it.

[The Fixer]

Sounds good, let us know how it works out!

[BonzoHansen]

It's not done yet? Slacker.

[bad64chevelle]

No came back out, the throw out was bent up, went and got a new one, same result. still wouldnt go in, new throw out bent. I cant win. Pulled the bell and trans out, they line up correctly, I dunno what to do now.

[Pampered-Z]

Something doesn't seem right, two damaged T/Os? Are you sure the T/O isn't getting damaged during the install? check and make sure the fork is good. Also might want to try putting in the trans without the clutch, T/O + fork to make sure everything is lining up correctly. Did the pilot bearing go into the shaft freely?

[BonzoHansen]

What if he over adjusted the clutch linkage/no free play?

[bad64chevelle]

The Pilot went on the shaft fine before we installed it, never tried after, but it also goes on the align tool fine now too. I will try without the fork later on when I have another person to help me lift the trans later on.

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

What if he over adjusted the clutch linkage/no free play?

Thats a possibility but would that still prevent me from getting the trans fully in?

[bad64chevelle]

Well it looks like the Lakewood Fork wont work with an 11" clutch, and they failed to mentinon that.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22119

Gonna look for a stock fork, new Throw out, etc.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by bad64chevelle

The Pilot went on the shaft fine before we installed it, never tried after, but it also goes on the align tool fine now too. I will try without the fork later on when I have another person to help me lift the trans later on.



Thats a possibility but would that still prevent me from getting the trans fully in?

No I thought that might be why you were wrecking TO bearings. Overadjusted and just slamming the crap out of it.

[JL8Jeff]

Is the pilot bushing all the way in? The biggest problem I had was the TO bearing pulled part way out of the fork as I wiggled the trans. Then the shifter linkage wouldn't allow me the correct angle to get the trans back into the TO bearing while staying on the fork all the way. And lastly, I think there is too much play in the output shaft of the M21 which causes my current occasional noise.

[bad64chevelle]

pilot is all the way in Bonzo and BTK can attest to that. I gotta find a stock clutch fork and see how that happens. Of course advance said they had that and my TO in stock, and neither were there.

[BonzoHansen]

So you didn't get one??

[1QWIKBIRD]

If you eliminate the fork, clutch linkage and the bearing from the equation, will the trans slide in and bolt up without difficulty?


Which style TO bearing are you using, short, medium or long version? Possible that the bearing is not spec'd to the style clutch you are running?

What bellhousing and fork? Factory or Aftermarket?

Adjustable pivot ball? or stock.

Sorry if you've been asked this stuff already.

Chris

[JL8Jeff]

I should have the old stock clutch fork from the L78 sitting around if you just want to use it to check the fit. The pocket that sits on the pivot ball is a little worn and that's why I got a new one so I wouldn't use it as a permanent replacement.

[bad64chevelle]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

So you didn't get one??

Yes. Both from two different places.

Originally Posted by 1QWIKBIRD

If you eliminate the fork, clutch linkage and the bearing from the equation, will the trans slide in and bolt up without difficulty?


Which style TO bearing are you using, short, medium or long version? Possible that the bearing is not spec'd to the style clutch you are running?

What bellhousing and fork? Factory or Aftermarket?

Adjustable pivot ball? or stock.

Sorry if you've been asked this stuff already.

Chris

-I have not tried it without the fork yet
-Using an OEM throw out- medium I would guess with an OEM Fork.
-Lakewood Bell, and an OEM Fork (was a Lakewood fork but traded that in for credit on new rear shocks)
-I believe the ball is a stock ball.
-Dont worry, havent been asked all of these

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

I should have the old stock clutch fork from the L78 sitting around if you just want to use it to check the fit. The pocket that sits on the pivot ball is a little worn and that's why I got a new one so I wouldn't use it as a permanent replacement.

-Thanks Jeff, but got a fork today.


From what Ive been told the Lakewood fork wouldnt work with an 11" clutch which is what I have. So that is gone, and its back to factory fork and throw out.

[BonzoHansen]

The 1st TOB came with the clutch right? And the 2nd one was the same style?

[1QWIKBIRD]

I have an extra Lakewood Fork and adjustable pivot ball for a lakewood bell, and I probably have a couple TO bearings if you want to borrow to try and get the geometry right. First though, I'd try just sliding the tranny in, make sure there are no alignment issues and such. For the tranny to not bolt up the mis-alignment would have to be pretty severe, but I am sure crazy stuff happens.

If you take the time to do the bell housing alignment per lakewood's instructions, that would eliminate/minimize any mis-alignment issues. It is time consuming, but worth the effort. There are two methods, one is using offset dowels, the other involves some drilling and welding on the bellhousing. Offset dowels are easier initially, but everytime you pull the thing apart you have to check it again. The drilling and welding is more difficult up front, but once its done you are good to go so long as the bell always is used with that block.

here's a link I have for pivot ball/adjustment from centerforce, but should apply to any setup
http://www.danhardison.com/misc/PIVOTDOC.JPG


Chris