LS1 electric throttle

[PolarBear]

What years of the cars had the electric motor for the TB? Does anyone know if the 04 GTO also had the seperate motor for the throttle body?
I already asked on LS1tech but no one answered me

**EDIT**

What years did the f-body get that seperate motor for the cruise? Was it all LS1 years? Is the 04 GTO EXACTLY the same as the F-body? Is the C5 LS1/6 the same as the F-body? Are all Gen IV LS engines DBW? Do they all have the motor for the throttle on the TB?

[SRGN]

C5s with LS1/LS6, and all LS2 have the drive by wire system. I used a P&P f-body throttle body on my 04 GTO, it is still cable operated.

[PolarBear]

Are the C5's full drive by wire? or do they still have a cable for the accelerator and the electric motor is for the cruise? Is the 04 GTO the same? I dont care about aftermarket unless it gets me drive by wire to an electric motor.
I am still trying to figure out how I can do DBW on a carb style TB for an LS series engine and I need to do it before I get my bottom end completed so I dont have to go back in and change reluctor wheels.
And which year F-bodies got the motor too?

[NJ Torque]

All F bodies came with manual.

[PolarBear]

Don't delete my post. He is wrong the f body got a motor for the cruise. The cable went to the motor then to th TB

[BonzoHansen]

Dbw is a motor on the tb and is totally different from the cruise motor, which is not related to ecm/reluctor wheel

[JL8Jeff]

Pretty sure the C5 and some GTO years are dbw with no cable to the TB except possibly for cruise control or traction control. The cruise control is a separate electric motor on the f-body that basically runs a separate cable to the TB. Does the dbw TB have any form of lag compared to the cable operated TB? Are you just looking to keep the setup cleaner with wiring instead of a cable? I think the feel of the cable with spring might be more comfortable vs the wire, but that's just my thinking on it.

[SRGN]

Drive by wire and having an actuator for the cruise control are not one in the same. The drive by wire consists of a stepper motor attached directly to the throttle body, with accelerator position sensors on the pedal and another in the motor itself. The 2 sensors in the pedal work opposite of each other as a redundancy check. My 04 GTO had the same throttle body as an f-body, when the GTO went LS2 in 05-06 it had the DBW system. If you want to use a cruise actuator as a throttle motor, I wish you luck with that If you're looking into a DBW system, start doing your homework on what it will really take to get it done.

[PolarBear]

There were 3 cables on the Z28 that I got the motor from. The guy only gave me one cable and I am trying to figure out if there is another way to get my cruise on a carb style TB. If the LS1 GTO had DBW and a cable I figure I can try to adapt that to what I want to do, or if any of the corvettes got dbw and a cable. I am trying to figure if the f body ls1 and the vette was the same (or LS6 for that matter). I want to go carb style intake on the 71 without losing cruise and hide all the cables. I don't think I will be able to hide the f body motor under the dash and still have the cable style setup. So my next thought was maybe I can use the f body, vette or maybe gto motor on a gen 4 style engine. I am trying to do my "homework".
Also I don't think any of the electronic transmissions use a kickdown but I may be wrong

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by scooter

I already asked on LS1tech but no one answered me

Originally Posted by SRGN

If you're looking into a DBW system, start doing your homework on what it will really take to get it done.

That is what I am trying to do here. I suppose in my head in the first post I put what I thought was specific but it didnt come out that way.
What I know; F-body was cable operated TB except for the cruise. Cable went from the pedal to the motor then back to the TB. There is a 3rd cable, went from the motor but I dont know what it went to. Currently no one makes a DBW 4150 style TB in the aftermarket.
What years did the f-body get that seperate motor for the cruise? Was it all LS1 years? Is the 04 GTO EXACTLY the same as the F-body? Is the C5 LS1/6 the same as the F-body? Are all Gen IV LS engines DBW? Do they all have the motor for the throttle on the TB?
So far I know the same from all of the posts here.

[JL8Jeff]

3rd cable might be the traction control. I think that is a separate motor/cable to pull back the throttle in low traction situations regardless of where your foot is on the accelerator. So the f-body might have 3 cables, accelerator, traction control, cruise control. My car has 2, I don't have traction control(ASR) but I do have cruise control.

[V]

my car has 2 cables to the TB, i have cruise and traction control.

but back to your topic.

setting up a true DBW TB isnt that hard. You would need to start off with a ls1/ls6 oem Corvette TB. That would have the original stepper motor intact still. They have a TPS sensor, so it appears the computer doesnt care much about the gas pedal input, for engine use other than how it would correct for traction control. In an older application, i doubt you'd be retaining a traction control function, so this shouldnt be an issue. Basically youd install the TB like normal and wire the stepper motor to some type of switch worked by the gas pedal. You could try to see how the vette is done and maybe obtain a pedal and sensor/switch. Or, find a vette, unplug the tb stepper motor(if possible) and use a volt meter to test for voltage at no throttle and full throttle. with those number you could in theory build a switch worked by the gas pedal utilizing a potentiometer to work between the 2 voltages you recorded. It could be done off a small arm directly attached to the pedal or a very short, say 6" throttle cable kept under the dash, hooked up to the custom switch. I'd suggest trying to obtain a corvette pedal setup though, would be easier and more durable.

[PolarBear]

Paul, in your mind I am sure what you just said makes complete sense but I am completely lost sorry.

I think you are telling me to use a production DBW TB motor for the actual throttle, but put a cable on it? As far as the switches and resistors I am totoally lost. I would use a production pedal for a gen IV motor vette, GTO, what ever. Ideally I would like to use the f-body cruise motor to replace the stepper motor, I would mount that under the dash and have a cable go through the firewall so it would kind of look stock. All the rest of the stuff would be Gen IV and hence the reasoning behind the 24x or (I forget if it is 52,54 or 58) wheel on the crank.
I just dont know that it is possible to use the cruise motor like a stepper on a DBW. The 4150 style TB I am thinking about getting also has an IAC (I think) and a TPS. I am thinking maybe I can rewire the DBW stuff to utulize the TPS in the TB and the cruise motor for the stepper?
I would love to test bench this stuff but that would require a lot of money to get set up

FYI this is the TB that I am looking to use

[V]

ah ok, the 4150 style tb threw me off, i was still thinking basic LSx TB and lsx intake manifold

ok, it can still be done just a little more custom.

as for all the electronics talk, i did go to college for a bit for electrical engineering so sometimes i get carried away. later today ill look over your situation and all and see what can be done and how, and even draw up a wiring diagram. itll give me something to do, lol

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by SmokingSS

ah ok, the 4150 style tb threw me off, i was still thinking basic LSx TB and lsx intake manifold

ok, it can still be done just a little more custom.

as for all the electronics talk, i did go to college for a bit for electrical engineering so sometimes i get carried away. later today ill look over your situation and all and see what can be done and how, and even draw up a wiring diagram. itll give me something to do, lol

I dont think I need a diagram per-se. I will be doing this with all factory components. I just need to figure out if I can do the mechanicals with factory parts, without making anything custom. I was confused about using a switch etc. on a cable. Why would I need that when you said at the bottom I can just use a vette pedal.
I may wind up throwing this all out the window if I cant get the engine, intake, throttle body and air cleaner under a flat hood. That is why I want to see if I can get a vette oil pan on the engine in my WTB post. If I cant get it under a flat hood then I will just go front loading intake and Ill just go gen IV and be done with it all. As Scott always says "do you homework", I figure I will start mocking stuff up come spring time and I have plenty of time to sit in the house and read now.
Going back to the DBW. I would guess on the DBW TB the stepper motor is connected directly to the blade shaft. I doubt I would be able to get something like that adapted to my setup very easy. That is why I am trying to figure out if the C5 LS1 had a TB like the Gen IV, or if it had an external motor with a cable, like the f-body has for cruise. If I can use the cruise motor I think it would be ideal. I can use a cable from the motor to the TB and since the 4150 is a replacement for the LS1 TB the cams for the cable on either TB should be similar ratios? That would allow for less calibration for the ECM in theory.

[V]

using a corvette setup would need a bunch of components and could be more of a headache than its worth. IMO the easiest thing to do if you were set on this route, is to see if you could physically attch the stepper motor to the throttle blade of the 4150 TB unit. it may take some effort, but would be the best.

ok, first here is a corvette TB vs. an Fbody TB... the stepper motor is mounted right to the TB itself.



Here you can see that gearing is used to get the TB to open quickly and smoothly.




This is a Cruise control unit from an 1998 camaro. Problem with possible using a cruise control unit is they arent really made to open/close quickly. moreorless they just make small adjustments slowly.




I couldnt find pics of a traction control motor, but that is different from the cruise control one. and that may be a little quicker due to its need to shut throttle at a moments notice.

if all else fails... there are dry sump systems to kee the oil pan low, lol.

[BonzoHansen]

Paul kind of hit on why you can't use a CC setup for throttle control - it's a matter of precision, plus if you still have a cable then it's kind of moot. Adapting a DBW motor to a 4150 style tb could be interesting. 2 throttle shafts vs 1, force required to open it, stops, etc., all sorts of variables. But then at least it would be all wires, no cables.

[V]

if u think the hood would clear the 4150 and an air cleaner...
...have you considered maybe this solution? and then still using a basic LSx TB... you could still try to make a dbw system work without the hassle of fabbing a stepper motor up to the 4150.

[BonzoHansen]

A short cowl hood should clear. My flat hood clears an RPM, carb & A/C on a SBC. Other guys get air gaps in there, so there is some room.

[PolarBear]

There is no way I would use one of those elbows. I would just go with a front loading intake instead, thanks though.
Scott, you know nothing about the oil pans. It won't matter with what I am prepared to do so the vette pan !fail. I think maybe the LS2 vette pan may be the ticket, it is lower than the fbody pan but it is longer in the sump area. Once it starts warming up I will get the block and heads mocked up in the car and see what kind of height the intake takes under the hood then I can figger out the pan. I will probably buy the intake and TB soon so I can start working on some of this stuff

[BonzoHansen]

Always trying to complicate things

[PolarBear]

I dont want a cookie cut car like most people have. I am not worried about "complicating" anything. I have another car to drive

[JL8Jeff]

Use the Magnacharger intake, it's front loading!

-

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by SmokingSS

This is a Cruise control unit from an 1998 camaro. Problem with possible using a cruise control unit is they arent really made to open/close quickly. moreorless they just make small adjustments slowly.




I couldnt find pics of a traction control motor, but that is different from the cruise control one. and that may be a little quicker due to its need to shut throttle at a moments notice.

My Cruise motor looks different But after playing with it for a little while I can see that it doesnt clse very fast. Although the spring on the TB should help with that, but it could work against closing it fast. I should look for a TCS motor and mess with that too.

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

plus if you still have a cable then it's kind of moot

what is the difference really? That is what calibration and TPS is for
This is the oil pan I will go with most likely

[BonzoHansen]

What pan is that?