Good bolt in rear setups for a second gen?

[SteveR]

I'm looking at bolt in rear suspension setups for second gens, what do you guys think? I like the Heidt's setup
(http://www.heidts.com/index.cfm/page...rod/prd166.htm),
and the Chris Alston one too
(http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=132457).
Anybody have any others they know about, or heard if any of them are better than others? I like the Heidt's because its a nice looking setup, and its a lot cheaper than the Chris Alston one.

[NJSPEEDER]

nice looking set ups, my only concern would be how different the lengths of the uper and lower arms are. if you limit range of motion, like a tight suspension for handling, you may be ok, but if you do anything that requires a good amount of articulation you can get some strange pinion angles both vertically and diagonally.

I certainly like the price on the heidt's one better

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

nice looking set ups, my only concern would be how different the lengths of the uper and lower arms are. if you limit range of motion, like a tight suspension for handling, you may be ok, but if you do anything that requires a good amount of articulation you can get some strange pinion angles both vertically and diagonally.

I certainly like the price on the heidt's one better

Yea, that was my concern too. The Alston one looks like it has more range of motion than the Heidts, but I'm reading up on people that recently installed the Heidts and love it. I emailed them and they say they use it in a pro-touring second gen they have with no problems. I'm sure they're going to say its good though lol

[BonzoHansen]

What is the intended use?

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

What is the intended use?

I'm beginning a build on an '81 Camaro. It's going to see mainly street use, but a little track time too. I plan on putting a decent amount of miles on it so the setup has to be able to handle a lot of driving. I'm hoping to be making a good amount of power too so it has to be fairly strong as well.

[BonzoHansen]

what kind of track time (I knew the car knucklehead :P)? Drag? Autocross? Open track? Define good amount of power. What are you planning on doing about wheels & tires? Brakes?

Ugh, t-top car - if it were mine I might consider scrapping the back seat & putting a good cage in. Weld in SFCs are a must. I have the alston racing ones, similar to the global west ones. If I redo the 77 I will likely make them, like this: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10965

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

what kind of track time (I knew the car knucklehead :P)? Drag? Autocross? Open track? Define good amount of power. What are you planning on doing about wheels & tires? Brakes?

Ugh, t-top car - if it were mine I might consider scrapping the back seat & putting a good cage in. Weld in SFCs are a must. I have the alston racing ones, similar to the global west ones. If I redo the 77 I will likely make them, like this: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10965

I'm not going to drag race it too much, but I do want to take it to some autocross and road course tracks here and there for fun. Track times arent all that important. I want to build the car up so that it can handle the power. I'm hoping to make somewhere between 600-750 depending on the setup. Brakes will be as big as I can squeeze under the front wheels lol Wheels will be possibly Budniks. I really like the Cobalt
(http://www.budnik.com/roadwheeldetai...3&pid=517&pg=2)
and GTX styles.
(http://www.budnik.com/roadwheeldetai...3&pid=519&pg=3)
Tires will be whatever works out the best. I'll start with the Cooper ZXS's though. I had them on the Hawk and loved them.
Car will be getting a bar and SFCs so it should be pretty stiff. I'm not sure about the front clip though. Theres the Global West stuff, then full front clip swaps.

[CHRIS67]

Steve - I love DSE products, I just can't aford most of them. Check out their Quadralink kit.


http://www.detroitspeed.com/productp...suspension.htm

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by CHRIS67

Steve - I love DSE products, I just can't aford most of them. Check out their Quadralink kit.


http://www.detroitspeed.com/productp...suspension.htm

yea man, their stuff looks really good. I was checking them out the other day. The price isnt even all that bad considering you can get it with a complete rear as well. The thing I need to think about if I'm going to spend $5400 on a bolt in rear, is what the cost comparison will be to a back half kit and what the pros and cons of each will be to determine true value and what will work out better in the long run.

[BonzoHansen]

does the dse setup require tubs and thus narrowed tank too?

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

does the dse setup require tubs and thus narrowed tank too?

I read it over and didnt see any mention of rear rail modifications. I'll have to do a search on the webs and see if anybody says anything about that.

[HardcoreZ28]

All 3 of the major suspension co's mentioned have good reps as far as I know. Not sure if they make a kit for the second gen but you can also check out Hot Rods To Hell. They have some pretty trick setups as well.

[BonzoHansen]

TMK Heidt's, like Fatman, only has a good rep with hotrodders. Not real performance guys (open track, etc).

HTH has the truck arm setups that some people really like.

Lateral Dynamics makes a 3 link setup the track guys love. I think the exclusive dealer is ATS (http://www.t56kit.com/) - a guy named Tyler runs the place.

Then there is Air Ride Tech (http://www.ridetech.com/) - they use the chris alston g-bar as the basis for their rear setup. They flog the crap out of their stuff at autocrosses and such. The air spring concept is neat if not expensive. You can theoretically dial in each corner spring rate, but I’m not sold as I fear the effects of total spring failure (like the guy who won the burnout contest at Carlisle). They might be at good guys in PA at the end of the month, might be worth your trip there (or Rhinebeck in week or 2).

Art Morrison is another place to look. And maybe speedtech. Martz makes a front subframe, but most everyone appears to believe it is a flimsy POS.

[SteveR]

That Lateral Dynamics stuff looks amazing, but it looks like its all for 1st gens. I think i want to stay away from air bags for the sole reason I'd be afraid that a pressure fitting or something would let go and the car would hit the ground.

I checked out Art Morrison and a few others and they make great stuff, but once you get into that price range, its about the same to back half the car instead of doing an easy bolt in system. Not that a back half would be bad, but thats increasing the cost by a lot.

[BonzoHansen]

If you don't want to cut, I might suspect a really good leaf setup is the way to go. Prowl around.

[CHRIS67]

I put a Hotchkis TVS in my 1st gen and the difference was huge. I'm not saying that it is anythign that I'd track, but it is a sweet ride on the road and nice in the turns over stock. They do make one for a 2nd gen if you want to keep the $$ lower than a 4 link type system.

[BonzoHansen]

I have tvs in my 77

[NJSPEEDER]

Originally Posted by CHRIS67

Steve - I love DSE products, I just can't aford most of them. Check out their Quadralink kit.


http://www.detroitspeed.com/productp...suspension.htm

Looks like it has the same way big to way little arm ratio problem that the Heidts system has.

[Pampered-Z]

By looks, I Alison setup appears to have allot of ability to make adjustments. That might be your best option since you want to basically use it on the street but be able to adjust it for the track. looks like the only kit that allows for you to change the LCA angles. The other units also appear to use odd brackets on the upper control arms that might have more flex in them?

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by SteveR

yea man, their stuff looks really good. I was checking them out the other day. The price isnt even all that bad considering you can get it with a complete rear as well. The thing I need to think about if I'm going to spend $5400 on a bolt in rear, is what the cost comparison will be to a back half kit and what the pros and cons of each will be to determine true value and what will work out better in the long run.

I am looking into the quadra link right now. First of all it isnt a bolt in kit. It requires a LOT of cutting and welding. Second when you consider you dont need springs or shocks with the DSE (comes with) it sort of brings the price back down a little. I was going to go with composite rear leafs, but I think the quadra is the way to go for the price range.
I do not think you need the tubs or narrowed tank for the Quadra link. I *think* it uses the rear frame rails in the stock location. I think you need to move the frame rails on with the tub kit when you use leaf style springs to get the widths you want on the wheels. The quadra link has the lower contol arms going to the rear at an angle so you gain a little more room for wider tires without moving the rails.
I have asked DSE to send a copy of the instructions so I know what I would be getting into before I purchase. I will be doing a lot of cutting and welding already on the back half of my car so a little more work for something like this is not an issue for me. From the video on the DSE site of the blue second gen makes me think the product is good enough for me. I dont plan on going to the track with the car too often, mostly street use so for the money vs. use I dont think other products are worth the cost.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by scooter

I think you need to move the frame rails on with the tub kit when you use leaf style springs to get the widths you want on the wheels. The quadra link has the lower contol arms going to the rear at an angle so you gain a little more room for wider tires without moving the rails.
I have asked DSE to send a copy of the instructions so I know what I would be getting into before I purchase. I will be doing a lot of cutting and welding already on the back half of my car so a little more work for something like this is not an issue for me. From the video on the DSE site of the blue second gen makes me think the product is good enough for me. I dont plan on going to the track with the car too often, mostly street use so for the money vs. use I dont think other products are worth the cost.

Regarding the mini-tubs,

On a first gen you have to cut out a 8-10" section of the frame and notch+box it out, as well as relocate your shocks.

Two things I was dissatisfied with with DSE's kit:

1.) When I bought the tubs the directions were ****. They left out a few steps and it looks like some of the measurements were off. I have a gap to fill on the passenger side now.

2.) The frame rails are left very thin towards the back curve of the wheel well. The stock rails are maybe 1" thick but you have to modify them to be basically wall-on-wall in one spot on each rail. I didn't like this so I made it a bit wider and shaped the metal around it more.

On a 2nd gen you can fit 315's in the stock wheel well, so I would not go through this BS for 20mm more tire.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

Looks like it has the same way big to way little arm ratio problem that the Heidts system has.

The CA setup is long arm/short arm too, the LD setup is the only one without that problem and for the price I dont think it is worth it.

I would not do a bolt in only for the CA system. Maybe I am wrong but I dont think you would want those upper mounts only bolted it, I would think it would start to open up the bolt holes on the frame