I'm really kicking myself for not....

[Frosty]

GM regained a some of those dealers because they were forced to, my dealership included

Al, face it, Ford was better prepared for the collapse than the other 2, PERIOD. Maybe you're right, maybe it IS image but again, just another area where GM fails...more of the same. BTW, those debt relief commercials are completely different compared to this. Also, you're trying to make the comparison of Ford getting bailout money because the banks they used EVENTUALLY got bailout money? C'mon....really man? The deal was cut in 2006 with those banks/investment firms, Citi,Goldman and J.P. didn't get bailout $$$ until years later. MAYBE you can make the argument that since Ford had a revolving credit door and still had fund tied up with those firms in '09 you could make the argument they took "bailout" money but that's a big maybe. And yes, the government is an organized crime organization, we're not talking about banks right now so deflecting to that topic is irrelevant.

Now I'm not one of those 'tards that says I'm never going to buy a GM product because of the bailout...however I can understand why people feel that way. I just won't buy a product with that f'in 3.6 motor in it . Three have come in for timing chains in the last month and a half....baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad things happen when those chains snap on those motors.

[BigAls87Z28]

I heard its becoming a problem. I dunno if its an oil problem, or a metal problem.

It is one in the same. Whatever could be said about GM, could be said about Ford. Yes, Ford was in a better spot come late 08 then GM was, but GM was in a better spot then Ford was in 06. Everyone, like normal, worries about the now, and not the long term.
The reason GM went to the government was not because people didn't want to buy their cars, its because banks could no longer loan money. Hell, Ford had to put up the whole company in order to get enough funds to stay alive, and still ended up taking 6 billion from the government!
Im not trying to say that GM comes out clean in any of this, but I dont think Ford gets a pass at anything. For any of the automakers to say that they built a SINGLE car in America without tax-payer dollars involved is the most ignorant statement in the history of the automobile. At least with GM, the government could actually see a ROI.

Again, GM= Bad, Ford= God. I get it. GM and Ford are both on a current product offensive, with GM launching a few more cars then Ford.
Ford has right now, the Fiesta, Explorer (that was shown yesterday) and the new Focus.
GM will be launching a lot of new cars, Regal and 2 more variants, Cruze, Volt, XTS, refreshed pick ups and SUV's, and will probably be showing a new Malibu in detroit.
The only one still in question is Chrysler. So far they have the new Grand Cherokee, but the new 2nd gen 300 and Charger will be a good test. I hope they have a better mid-sizer this time around. The Sebring and Avenger are both straight-to-Avis special

[T69SS]

How did i know this thread would end up like this...

[Frosty]

I don't even talk about Chrysler any more...they're dead in the water.

It's not GM=bad Ford=God. However it's a big thing that Ford didn't come crying to the government, to me, personally, that's huge. The fact that GM was being investigated/question whether they paid back to the bailout loans is huge.

I don't hate GM, that's all I've pretty much driven in my life aside from the Tbird. I work for a GM dealer, I want them to succeed just as much as the next guy, I'm still loyal to them but I'm not gonna sit here and act like they're different right now, I'm not going to act like they've changed because they haven't...not yet.

[91chevywt]

The whole point of this is that Ford shares are up because the public sees a government bailout of GM and Chrysler, but they want to buy an American car. Ford comes out looking like the winner while noone knows, or cares what GM or Chrysler is doing except for the people that will already buy GM and Chrysler. The American public doesn't care to look into the specifics of it all, as theres too many other things to worry about in life for the average person. You can argue all you want about specifics, but in the end it just doesn't matter, and probably isn't going to change anyone's mind.

[BigAls87Z28]

But it is. GM is seeing very successful sales numbers out of all of GM's new products, meaning that people are still going to GM. Equinox and Camaro are two very good products that people cant get enough of. LaCrosse is another.
Ford is doing a good job too, and riding this anti-government wave a bit as well. I dont see people pulling their money out of bailed out banks, and I dont see people not believe in GM products. They were good before the bail out, they are still good after.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Gm's numbers arent up really. The numbers just seem up because the customers the are just buying the main brands cars...instead of one of the sister cars from pontiac/saturn etc. its just a consolidation of sales

[BigAls87Z28]

The numbers are up when compared to last year when they had 8 brands instead of 4.
GM's does publish the number of increased sales vs the 4 core brands of last year too.
Example is last month or the one before, GM was up like 10%, but when you compare Chevy, Buick, GMC and Caddy to a year ago, they were up 30%

[Frosty]

Got the motor out of the Enclave....holy Jeebus...talk about carnage. Timing chain snaped while the customer was doing 40mph. Cracked one of the cam bearings in half...snapped 4 rocker arms...this was on the back head. I'm really afraid to see everything once my guys completely tear the motor down.

I'm really disappointed in this 3.6...it's a good motor as far as power/fuel economy but this is happening more and more it seems(not only here at my dealership but I was reading some more about it)

[BigAls87Z28]

I've read about it here and there but it is starting to become a larger problem. I read one place is because of oil? Either wrong stuff or not being changed on time. Can't possibly be like this all the time.

[Stupercharged]

Originally Posted by bubba428

I bought a Ford.........

Then I'm sorry for your loss

[Knipps]

don't be, it probably didn't last very long. He was just taking it off the road for us

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I've read about it here and there but it is starting to become a larger problem. I read one place is because of oil? Either wrong stuff or not being changed on time. Can't possibly be like this all the time.

I would agree with that in isolated cases, unfortunately these aren't isolated cases and I would certainly hope GM doesn't use that as an excuse, they're in essence, calling their customers idiots lol.

These are cheap fixes either, well over $6K+ in warranty repairs per incident...scary stuff. I think my guys are pulling off the heads today...I guess we'll see what else is trashed.

[Frosty]

Front head is fine....back head...yeah.....the valves looked like they got beat by the LAPD.

[deadtrend1]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Front head is fine....back head...yeah.....the valves looked like they got beat by the LAPD.

I hope someone got a video of that ...

[bubba428]

Originally Posted by Knipps

don't be, it probably didn't last very long. He was just taking it off the road for us

Actually its one of the best running cars I've had. and the only one with working A/C. 95 T-bird LX with a 4.6. I still have an F-body too, 2 of them actually.