Do you think any if the 4th gen. F bodies will ever become big dollar collectables?

[Mezzy]

I want your opinion on weather or not you think any of the 4th generation F bodies will ever become big dollar collectables. Cars such as the Standard Z28s or the Trans Ams, or the special editions like the 1LE Z28, or the very limited N.H.R.A. Edition Formulas or Trans Ams? What about the Firehawk? Or the C.E.T.A. Trans Ams? What about all the different anniversary editions Chevy and Pontiac put out every 5 years? Will a manual transmission be worth more than an automatic? Will T tops add a lot more value? I think being that they were the first muscle cars to have real horsepower numbers, since the original muscle car era, if kept in beautiful condition, most will become big dollar collectables, except that it will take awhile, being so many were made. What do you think? I'd like to know?

[Mike]

Doubtful. Maybe the gmmg and dick Harrell type cars. But they ran off way too many fourth gens for real value

[WSex]

one day they will be worth 50,000+ not because of rarity but due to inflation. lol

[Mike]

Originally Posted by WSex

one day they will be worth 50,000+ not because of rarity but due to inflation. lol

Wrong. As the cost of living goes up, the values of expendable items ie. hobby type cars and spending will go down.

Look at the values of 1st gens and other classics at auction say 8 years ago compared to now.

[Mezzy]

But they made a boatload of the 68-72s no? I mean, you can still find those old cars to restore. Eventually, won't all the 4th gen cars fade away from rot, crashes, junk yards, etc, and suffer the same fate as their predecessors? Then in time won't they be in demand like the original muscle cars? The only reason I see them maybe not rising in vale would be because unlike after the muscle car era,where you couldn't buy a hp car, because they weren't making them anymore, today, you can buy new cars with high hp, so the desire for a 4th gen., might not be as much as anticipated.

[sweetbmxrider]

Yeah and we will be swapping battery packs and electric motors into them

[grazi]

I think I agree with Mike on this one. I don't think any 80's or 90's muscle cars are ever going to be worth big money like the 60's eras cars. Aside from 87 GNX's and Grand Nationals what other vehicle has risen or held value 20 years later? Roush and Saleen Mustangs? 89 Turbo Trans Am? Zr1? That's all I can think of.

[WildBillyT]

Some of them might. As stated, like the GMMG, Harrell, and 1LE cars.

The three biggest factors that I can see are these:

1.) The collector car universe is huge now. Way back when the musclecar era was killed by smog and insurance so nobody gave a crap about a lot of the stuff that's high $ now. It was sent to the crusher as an old car. Plus rustproofing was poor. Everybody NOW knows that if you hang on to a car somebody may want it later. Then? Not so much.

2.) There are not very many options that made these cars unique from each other. Colors and transmission choice, really. And the WS6/Firehawk/SS package, but even then they're all the same other than trans and colors. The RPO choices from, say, 1969 are as long as your arm. There were 14 engine choices and something like 7 transmission choices. Fiber optic lamp monitoring. Standard and heavy duty clutches. Brake upgrades. Steering upgrades. And so forth.

3.) New stuff is better in almost every conceivable way. The 5th gen will hurt the 4th gen's values down the line. Just like the 4th keeps the 3rd down. 1st and 2nd are a class their own since 67-72 has its own cultural significance.

The stuff that's worth high $ now is because it's unique, rare, and is either pleasing to (most) eyes or performance oriented. Rare does not necessarily mean valuable.

[Mezzy]

Grazi, I'm not asking about 80s cars. We all know theyll never be worth anything. I follow what wild bill is saying about the 4th gens.

[BonzoHansen]

They will never reach the same levels as older muscle cars. So that is not the question to answer.

The viable question is will they at some point appreciate in value and be considered collectible. To that I will say yes, to some degree, they will. But it will only be the ‘good ones’. SS cars, etc., like WBT said. The past few years have seen the 3rd gens continue to rise in value, but it has to be a good one, of course. A Z28 is always worth more than a 6cyl car, be it a 1967 or a 2002. The lower the mileage, the better. Modifications very often decrease value (even with used cars). Ones that can be undone easily are better. But there are always exceptions to the modification rule and ‘acceptable’ mods go in & out of style. See pro-street. There is a reason you are seeing pro-street cars get new wheels and then marketed as pro-touring. PT is hot now, PS is not. I think a lot of guys are buying cars they can drive. PS cars are not good drivers. A well built PT car is great to drive. The dumb buyer will see 18” wheels and disc brakes and think they have a PT car, but what they really have is a poor street drive train, a craptastic street suspension and poorly sorted drag brakes. Right now a well built PT 69 Camaro will bring 2-3x the value of the same car if it is a clean, OE restored base car. But it won’t bring a real 69 Z28 that much higher, if at all. In 5 years? Who knows.

4th gens will continue their current slide down used car prices and then at some point you’ll see the cream of the crop start to go up again. That is just how it works with this kind of car. Yes the 5th gens will hurt resale value now. But the resurgence of the Camaro name will help in the long run.

What I do wonder is will the level of collectability/demand will be inverse to level of technology. The more complicated (computers, etc) cars become, does the hurt future interest? Part availability, increased repair/restore difficulty, etc.

I wonder how the demise of Pontiac impacts long term Firebird values.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Mezzy

Grazi, I'm not asking about 80s cars. We all know theyll never be worth anything. I follow what wild bill is saying about the 4th gens.

wrong. if 3rd gens don't go up in value. neither will 4th gens. Of course the market is showing good 3rd gens are appreciating in value.

[Mezzy]

I'm only asking about 4th gens cause I own a bunch and I love em. Just like to year what people think. Bill makes some sense. but only time will tell

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Mezzy

I'm only asking about 4th gens cause I own a bunch and I love em. Just like to year what people think. Bill makes some sense. but only time will tell

Your NHRA edition if it's in good shape and not too molested. The other two are not going anywhere price wise.

JMO. And for what it's worth, I'm the type of guy who keeps an eye on values, has a "portfolio", and watches the blue chip cars as this type of thing is interesting to me.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

What I do wonder is will the level of collectability/demand will be inverse to level of technology. The more complicated (computers, etc) cars become, does the hurt future interest? Part availability, increased repair/restore difficulty, etc.

This is a huge point. Part of the reason the old stuff is popular and valuable is because you can work on it at home with hand tools...

[1320B4U]

3rd gens are rising in value just like the dime a dozen monte carlo ss's. Why?...b/c most people back then realized the production #'s and just drove them into the ground thinking there would be no value to them. Take for instance the gn's...i would guess approx 75% of them are lower mileaged, garaged kept vehicles as they didn't make a ton of them compared to the regal's so everyone kept them decent. Of the 200k monte carlo ss's built a lot more were used everyday and a lot more were crushed. NOt to say an ss' monte is worth more than a gn but collectibility is the amt of nice, low mileage vehicles avail to a consumer. You can't say an 80's camaro isn't worth anything but a 4th gen camaro will be...thats just stupid as they are pretty much the same type of vehicle. Its like saying a 327/powerglide camaro from '69 isn't worth anything b/c its not an original dz302/m22 higher hp car. Will they every attain the older muscle car values, NO!...but there will be a market for collectible 80's AND 90s and beyond vehicles if the condition, mileage, and options are there to warrant it. Answer to your question is yes, there will be value on certain 4th gens....low mileage ss's and ws6's (moderate value) to higher end values on lt-4 ss anniversary's, collector/anniversary edition birds, nickey camaro's, intimidators, etc. Low production #'s too help.

You have to remember the collectible people to yours and my car are the people who want to relive their youth in 20 years or the folks not even born yet that want a nostaglic vehicle down the line.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by 1320B4U

You have to remember the collectible people to yours and my car are the people who want to relive their youth in 20 years or the folks not even born yet that want a nostaglic vehicle down the line.

Yes, timing! one of the reasons for g-body and 3rd gen price appreciation is the kid that wanted them new but could not afford one are now adults with income. it's part of the cycle!

[WayFast84]

Who cares? Don't buy a car as an investment. It won't ever work out the way you plan on it. Are you gonna park a car and let it sit for 40 years? Restore one later? Just ask Jl8Jeff about his 1st gen restoration.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by 1320B4U

3rd gens are rising in value just like the dime a dozen monte carlo ss's. Why?...b/c most people back then realized the production #'s and just drove them into the ground thinking there would be no value to them. Take for instance the gn's...i would guess approx 75% of them are lower mileaged, garaged kept vehicles as they didn't make a ton of them compared to the regal's so everyone kept them decent. Of the 200k monte carlo ss's built a lot more were used everyday and a lot more were crushed. NOt to say an ss' monte is worth more than a gn but collectibility is the amt of nice, low mileage vehicles avail to a consumer. You can't say an 80's camaro isn't worth anything but a 4th gen camaro will be...thats just stupid as they are pretty much the same type of vehicle. Its like saying a 327/powerglide camaro from '69 isn't worth anything b/c its not an original dz302/m22 higher hp car. Will they every attain the older muscle car values, NO!...but there will be a market for collectible 80's AND 90s and beyond vehicles if the condition, mileage, and options are there to warrant it. Answer to your question is yes, there will be value on certain 4th gens....low mileage ss's and ws6's (moderate value) to higher end values on lt-4 ss anniversary's, collector/anniversary edition birds, nickey camaro's, intimidators, etc. Low production #'s too help.

You have to remember the collectible people to yours and my car are the people who want to relive their youth in 20 years or the folks not even born yet that want a nostaglic vehicle down the line.

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Yes, timing! one of the reasons for g-body and 3rd gen price appreciation is the kid that wanted them new but could not afford one are now adults with income. it's part of the cycle!

The original question was "big money". There will always be a market to reclaim one's youth.

Originally Posted by WayFast84

Who cares? Don't buy a car as an investment. It won't ever work out the way you plan on it. Are you gonna park a car and let it sit for 40 years? Restore one later? Just ask Jl8Jeff about his 1st gen restoration.

And keep in mind, "restoration" is exactly that. No engine upgrades, no trans swap, etc. And you have to keep some of the things that suck. Like points and a Q-Jet.

[BonzoHansen]

Correct. Big money? No. Appreciating prices? Yes.


And Q-Jets are good carbs! LOL

[WayFast84]

LG4 for life.

[LTb1ow]

Why would a plastic car with glass rear ends and transmissions be worth anything?

[sweetbmxrider]

Originally Posted by LTb1ow

Why would a plastic car with glass rear ends and transmissions be worth anything?

Lots of people collect glass!

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Correct. Big money? No. Appreciating prices? Yes.


And Q-Jets are good carbs! LOL

Yeah, mine keeps the shop door from blowing closed really well!

[Jersey Mike]

Originally Posted by Mezzy

ever become big dollar collectables.

No.

[Mike]

Interesting tidbit. There were more 67-69 camaros built than 1993-2002 camaros built