Not a Ford Fan but..........

[NJSPEEDER]

It's supposed to be in the 100-125lbs range. The V8 will also always sit at least 2 inches higher because of the way the block is skirted. The turbos are really small, as in they seriously look silly hanging there but they manage to get the boost and power out of them reliably.

I was trying to find the link, there were some rather lengthy discussions about this when Ford switched from the V8 to the Ecoboost V6 in Daytona Prototypes.

[redsoxsstink]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

It's supposed to be in the 100-125lbs range. The V8 will also always sit at least 2 inches higher because of the way the block is skirted. The turbos are really small, as in they seriously look silly hanging there but they manage to get the boost and power out of them reliably.

I was trying to find the link, there were some rather lengthy discussions about this when Ford switched from the V8 to the Ecoboost V6 in Daytona Prototypes.

i remember reading somewhere the turbos are primarily the same Garrett units used on the 1.8t VWs

[Paul Huryk]

I should have been a bit more clear about the reason I wrote what I did.

If the only thing Ford was interested in was the lightest engine weight, then they probably achieved it.

I'm not doubting the reliability of these motors - then again in a race motor, you don't have an implied and enforceable warranty like something off the showroom floor.

Boost level does matter - too small a motor and too much boost give some really awkward power curves - the best example is the ultra Supras that dominate dyno racing - nothing until 5k, then all hell breaks loose until 9500. If you look at the high hp turbo cars, they all aim for max CI before they build - EVOs are punched to 2.3l. Subarus go for the 2.5L instead of the 2.0L, and the almighty GTR is probably going to be 4.1L. Cubic inches can lower boost required or revs to reach a certain power level. It also can increase volumetric efficiency in many cases.

A 650hp 3.5l V6 is going to need somewhere around 25psi. A 3.8L version might only need 21psi. there is only going to be so much upside on a 25psi motor to add more power - you won't be able to get 1,000hp out of the motor like some of the last generation GTs were getting with turbos out of the 5.4.

I would think the logical step for Ford would have been to go with a 4.7L (destroked 5.2L GT350) with a twin turbo setup good for 10psi to get up to the 675hp level. Power curve flat as you could get with a lot of upside potential in terms of upping the power.

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

Ford has proven the reliability of the V6 under racing conditions already. They have won several races, including the 24 Hours of Daytona with it already.

The boost level is immaterial when the engine is built to it. If they built the 5.2 with a combo for 20psi the conversation would be how silly the lame 8psi version is.

Dimensional the V6 is shorter in both height and length and narrower, add in the dry sump and the height difference is even more dramatic. There is also the matter of 100+ lbs extra that the supercharged V8 weighs. Keep in mind that these factors mean way more to the physics of a sub 3k lbs pure sports car than they do in a nearly 4k lbs, 4 seater pony car.

As far as an engine not being impressive because you can make more power with something else, that is a conversation that will go on forever. If you have the check book for it you can make a phone call and buy 1000hp SBC's and thats without even having the benefit of overhead cams. There is always a way to make more power. However that does not always translate into production cars, be it packaging, reliability, cost, or some other factor.

[NastyEllEssWon]

600 some horsepower out of a six banger is nothing to take lightly. Considering how well those eco-boosts perform already, tossing one over top of the transaxle is a totally different story. I look forward to seeing one in person in the future, Ive always been a fan of Fords GT40ish design styles

[BigAls87Z28]

Wow, so much hate for a car that makes 600hp+hp and they are doing it out of their showcase engine.
The 3.5TT EB engine is the new 5.0 for Ford. It is something that they have rebuilt their brand around and it is fitting that a high tech, special version of it is being used by their special supercar.
They COULD have done just taken the GT350's engine and dropped some turbos on it, but that shows Ford checked a box for what is expected of them.

The 3.5TT EB will be replacing the 6.2 liter V8 in the Raptor as well, but I don't see anyone complaining.
Why? Cause Ford used it for the Baja 1000 and a tons of other endurance races to prove the legitimacy of it.
And, in the end, if you are still butt-hurt about Ford using a V6 and want an American mid-engine sports car, then wait for this magical Chevrolet supercar coming.

[LTb1ow]

Ecoboosts get great reviews when used to actually tow. lulz.

[Blackbirdws6]

Would anyone really have made these comments if there was some special V8TT in the car? Just ask yourself that.

[NJSPEEDER]

Like most people I normally take the "it's a proven engine in racing" thing very lightly. That's because most often the "engine" in question is really just the block and no other part in any way resembles anything that will ever be seen on the a production line. NASCAR is a perfect example, Toyota proudly proclaims the prowess of their mighty NASCAR engine, meanwhile that is the only place in the whole world the entire engine exists. Ford however has gone in the exact opposite direction. They went out to see wha they could do with assembly line parts. In the Daytona Prototype engine the only differences were bearing, rings and pistons. On the top end they changed cams and intake but used ported factory castings. They even did all the original testing using a street car computer (later switched to real racing controllers with live feedback back telemetry, more data logging points, higher speed data output......a better computer)

I think Ford is really onto something with this car. They will have to build it for 2-4 years to get 100% into all the series they have talked about. I really hope they stick to it beyond that. I hope they stick with it for a good long time. For any American racing fan there is a bit of pride to seeing one of our much maligned domestic brands go kick the Europeans snobby asses right of the podium.

[sweetbmxrider]

My friend's ecoboost bent a rod, bone stock no towing or anything.

[BigAls87Z28]

This week at Geneva, Ford alluded to the cost being near 400k.
Thoughts?

[Blackbirdws6]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

This week at Geneva, Ford alluded to the cost being near 400k.
Thoughts?

Way too much $$.

[sweetbmxrider]

The v6 will certainly swindle the money from most potential customers' pockets!

[NJSPEEDER]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

This week at Geneva, Ford alluded to the cost being near 400k.
Thoughts?

I think that will land right in the middle of the speculator market. With the way prices of the last GT are climbing I'm sure there will be a high percentage of 10 original mile garage queens hitting the market about a decade after delivery.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

The v6 will certainly swindle the money from most potential customers' pockets!

400k is much higher than I thought and at only 250 units a year, that means very exclusive.
NOW I kind of think that they should have used that 5.2 liter engine, but this EBV6 is different enough from the other EB engines that makes it exclusive. Issue with making a 400k car means that you are going above the price range of cars like the new 661hp 488GTB from Ferrari with a new 3.9 twin turbo V8, the 650 and 675LT (number designating the power) 3.8 twin turbo V8 from McLaren, the new Lambo Huracan with a revised V10 making over 600, and on the very low end, the 911 Turbo S, Nissan GTR, and Corvette Z06 that are WELL under the 400k price ticket.

I understand that it's a full on carbon fiber tub with CF panels and all sorts of race-spec ****, but 400k puts you right with cars like the Ferrari F12, Lambo Aventador LP700-4/SV, Bentley's various twin turbo V8 and V12 engines that are race spec.

250-300k should be the prime spot for this car.

[NJSPEEDER]

weren't they originally targeting some where in the 150k range?

Is there anything coming out of Geneva about the Focus RS? So far all i have seen online is a bunch of fluff pieces basically touting the corporate spin sheet specs and language.

[BigAls87Z28]

What else do you need to know, outside of price?

[sweetbmxrider]

How many cup holders and power ports?

[Blackbirdws6]

They will surely still sell every single one of them.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

How many cup holders and power ports?

combined, 11

[NJSPEEDER]

I am curious if the announced production run is supposed to include any planned racing program. Not sure what the FIA requires sold as "street cars" for GT3 since it is supposed to be production based.

Figure if they do a manufacturer team that is at least 4 cars, 2 on track and 2 back up. Further cars if they plan developmental testing and even more cars if there are going to be customer teams.

I hope they go racing, just wondering if such an endeavor would absolutely eliminate any chance of any of these cars seeing the street.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6

They will surely still sell every single one of them.

That's my thinking as well. I didn't even realize the 2000's GT was so rare as I've seen so many of them.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

That's my thinking as well. I didn't even realize the 2000's GT was so rare as I've seen so many of them.

and from what i know those cars have all appreciated in price. actually were good investments. which will help sell these new ones.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

I am curious if the announced production run is supposed to include any planned racing program. Not sure what the FIA requires sold as "street cars" for GT3 since it is supposed to be production based.

Figure if they do a manufacturer team that is at least 4 cars, 2 on track and 2 back up. Further cars if they plan developmental testing and even more cars if there are going to be customer teams.

I hope they go racing, just wondering if such an endeavor would absolutely eliminate any chance of any of these cars seeing the street.

They have alluded that they will take the GT racing, but I don't know what that has to do with the RS.

[ThoR294]

wasn't the 2006 ford GT like $150,000?

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Originally Posted by ThoR294

wasn't the 2006 ford GT like $150,000?

Yes.