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08-06-2006, 09:57 PM
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#26
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Hippy Mod, Bergermeister Meisterberger, Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ewing
Posts: 6,216
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Hmmm, Ford had the Cobra overrated and owners were running around crying because they were coming up 30-40 hp short on the dyno. The last of the F-body's were rated at 305-310 hp and most of them were putting out 300-305 at the rear wheels! Then Corvette owners were crying. Give GM a shot, they will force Ford to play the real game.
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69 Z28 JL8 4 wheel disc brakes - being restored
09 Silverado Z71
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08-06-2006, 11:36 PM
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#27
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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Ant'sWS6 dynoed at 327HP I believe and it was damn near stock with only a lid, K&N and possibly a catback, but with no tuning AFAIK.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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08-06-2006, 11:40 PM
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#28
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 7,856
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jakes car is pretty stock to and he was in the 330's hp 340's tq I think
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1984 Firebird
2000 Z28
2023 Tacoma
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08-06-2006, 11:53 PM
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#29
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2007 Member of the Year
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seabrook, TX
Posts: 14,281
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__________________
WF=DF
Kommandant of the ACL (Anti Canadian League)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTb1ow
Junk the pos, spend the money on beer, acquire headache.
Same result cept this headache doesnt last months.
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08-07-2006, 12:07 AM
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#30
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayFast84
jakes car is pretty stock to and he was in the 330's hp 340's tq I think
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actually I think Jakes car put down 350 tq, but who's counting. jakes car is an 02, they usually made more power then the 2000 and lower years. Plus its an M6 car, there's more power to the wheels right there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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08-07-2006, 01:46 AM
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#31
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: West Long Branch
Posts: 13,598
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The 99 Cobra's were well over rated. Ford said they were making 310 or 320, to match the Fbody numbers. Turns out that when they were doing the testing, they forgot they put on long tube headers, high flow cats, and a totaly different tuning....
But what they lacked in 99, they made up for with teh 03/04 Cobras. Now I dont liek Ford as much as the next Bow Tie man, but those cars are sicccc!!!!11!!!one!
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2/20/2013: They Day the ****s Stopped
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08-07-2006, 12:46 PM
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#32
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13 Second Club / Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Franklin Lakes, NJ
Posts: 8,694
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why is everyone talking about power ratings? you act like the common person knows about wheel horse power and over and underratings. i tried to explain to my friend that LS1s are the same in a vette and a camaro (for the most part) but he couldnt grasp the concept. he refuses to believe anything other then the fact that a SS makes 15hp more then a Z28 LS1 and the vette makes 40hp more then a Z28.
we know the truth, but we are severely out-numbered. a common person will look at the numbers and believe the Ford and Dodge are far superior, and that might hurt sales. and to be honest i was really hoping for a stock forged motor FI car. the ease of modding on those cars are amazing! bolt-ons that give you an extra 100+ reliable horsepower? the GT500 looks really tempting compared to a 6.2 motor thats only putting out maybe 50hp more then a bolt on LS1.
i passed up a slammin deal on a low mileage LS2 Goat this past weekend in hopes of a 500+ hp 5th gen in the future. i guess its my stupidity to think that GM would try to beat ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1ow
Except Jersey mike, great kid, but the way he looks at me makes me feel like im in danger
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08-07-2006, 12:49 PM
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#33
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Co-Founder / Site Admin
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ewing, NJ
Posts: 22,476
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Screw the GT500. Yea, it's a 500hp motor. But its in a 3,950ish lb car. The 400 hp vette blew it's doors off. A 3500-3600 lb Camaro with 450hp would be pretty evenly matched with the GT500, and should be several thousand dollars cheaper.
- Justin
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1999 Camry - Beigemobile DD
2002 Suburban - Wife's DD
2004 Grand Cherokee - Not running / Project / Selling?
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08-07-2006, 01:08 PM
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#34
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2007 Member of the Year
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seabrook, TX
Posts: 14,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikz28
why is everyone talking about power ratings? you act like the common person knows about wheel horse power and over and underratings. i tried to explain to my friend that LS1s are the same in a vette and a camaro (for the most part) but he couldnt grasp the concept. he refuses to believe anything other then the fact that a SS makes 15hp more then a Z28 LS1 and the vette makes 40hp more then a Z28.
we know the truth, but we are severely out-numbered. a common person will look at the numbers and believe the Ford and Dodge are far superior, and that might hurt sales. and to be honest i was really hoping for a stock forged motor FI car. the ease of modding on those cars are amazing! bolt-ons that give you an extra 100+ reliable horsepower? the GT500 looks really tempting compared to a 6.2 motor thats only putting out maybe 50hp more then a bolt on LS1.
i passed up a slammin deal on a low mileage LS2 Goat this past weekend in hopes of a 500+ hp 5th gen in the future. i guess its my stupidity to think that GM would try to beat ford
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when we're talking about GT500s and whatever the top Camaro trim will be, the people that will actualyl buy them either a) will research these things and know them, or b) have too much money to care and just get whatever they think looks better
__________________
WF=DF
Kommandant of the ACL (Anti Canadian League)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTb1ow
Junk the pos, spend the money on beer, acquire headache.
Same result cept this headache doesnt last months.
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08-07-2006, 01:19 PM
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#35
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13 Second Club / Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Franklin Lakes, NJ
Posts: 8,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy
Screw the GT500. Yea, it's a 500hp motor. But its in a 3,950ish lb car. The 400 hp vette blew it's doors off. A 3500-3600 lb Camaro with 450hp would be pretty evenly matched with the GT500, and should be several thousand dollars cheaper.
- Justin
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i'll still take a blown forged motor over an aluminum motor. to get big hp numbers anyway your gonna have to spend money and weight to put them in. and, i'll bet kasey's life that the new camaro is more then 3600lb.
you guys are looking at stock vs stock. look at the numbers those guys in the 03/04 cobras are putting down with bolt ons. it makes us LS1 guys look like poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1ow
Except Jersey mike, great kid, but the way he looks at me makes me feel like im in danger
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08-07-2006, 01:25 PM
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#36
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Co-Founder / Site Admin
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ewing, NJ
Posts: 22,476
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That's because stock for stock is what the masses are going to be looking at. Most people don't buy cars based on their hp potential, they buy them based on their hp and performance numbers as they sit on the showroom floor.
That may not apply to people like us, but we are the minority.
- Justin
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1999 Camry - Beigemobile DD
2002 Suburban - Wife's DD
2004 Grand Cherokee - Not running / Project / Selling?
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08-07-2006, 01:28 PM
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#37
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Token v6 Guy
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: No longer neon land :(
Posts: 5,703
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They are putting the 2.0L neon engine in it!
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2013 Dodge Challenger SRT8 - 12.079 at 116.45
2010 Ford Taurus SHO - stage 4+ tune and an intake - no times yet
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08-07-2006, 01:30 PM
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#38
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2007 Member of the Year
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seabrook, TX
Posts: 14,281
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seriously can we put the filter back on for "neon" again???
__________________
WF=DF
Kommandant of the ACL (Anti Canadian League)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTb1ow
Junk the pos, spend the money on beer, acquire headache.
Same result cept this headache doesnt last months.
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08-07-2006, 01:35 PM
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#39
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hillsborough, NJ
Posts: 3,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy
That's because stock for stock is what the masses are going to be looking at. Most people don't buy cars based on their hp potential, they buy them based on their hp and performance numbers as they sit on the showroom floor.
That may not apply to people like us, but we are the minority.
- Justin
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I think most people buy cars for:
1) Combination of looks and advertised power
2) Loyalty to whichever manufacturer they like
3) Good ratio of style, comfort and practicality
4) And of course, price
Whatever has all of that in abundance will get the sales.
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I USED TO HAVE an 85 Camaro 305 4bbl, 90 Firebird V6, 97 Firebird V6 (10 speakers!). Despite the two family vehicles, 3 kids, wife and mortgage, I can finally realize the dream - 88 TA almost all stock... for now.
http://www.cardomain.com/id/untameddave
Wanted this -  , but ended up with this -  for free. Can't argue with free.
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08-07-2006, 01:36 PM
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#40
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13 Second Club / Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Franklin Lakes, NJ
Posts: 8,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy
That's because stock for stock is what the masses are going to be looking at. Most people don't buy cars based on their hp potential, they buy them based on their hp and performance numbers as they sit on the showroom floor.
That may not apply to people like us, but we are the minority.
- Justin
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i dont know, i just feel like ford has the mainstream, and the modified markets down better with their lineup. who the hell wants a 5.3? i sure as hell dont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1ow
Except Jersey mike, great kid, but the way he looks at me makes me feel like im in danger
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08-07-2006, 01:37 PM
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#41
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Haledon
Posts: 115
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What i feel basically what it comes down to it is, Are you a Ford Man, Chevy Man or a Mopar Man?? Numbers arent going to mean nothing in this battle, Like the battle they had back in the 60's-70's. Hopefully they are going to get loyal chevy customers back into the camaro since the Vette is out of reach for most chevy muscle car fans. I hope the Firebird isnt far behind the Camaro either.
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08-07-2006, 01:40 PM
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#42
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Stalker
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 12,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untamed
I think most people buy cars for:
1) Combination of looks and advertised power
2) Loyalty to whichever manufacturer they like
3) Good ratio of style, comfort and practicality
4) And of course, price
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AND 5) i think a big part of the camaro sales will be due to nostalgia, all the guys who used to own a camaro in the past and now can afford one again
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08-07-2006, 01:40 PM
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#43
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13 Second Club / Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Franklin Lakes, NJ
Posts: 8,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88jerseyiroc
What i feel basically what it comes down to it is, Are you a Ford Man, Chevy Man or a Mopar Man?? Numbers arent going to mean nothing in this battle, Like the battle they had back in the 60's-70's. Hopefully they are going to get loyal chevy customers back into the camaro since the Vette is out of reach for most chevy muscle car fans. I hope the Firebird isnt far behind the Camaro either.
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no thats garbage nowadays. people go for the better car nowadays. brand loyalty is rare unless you are diehard. many of the guys on LS1tech that are still floating around have gone over to ford. at least three mods have mustangs now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1ow
Except Jersey mike, great kid, but the way he looks at me makes me feel like im in danger
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08-07-2006, 01:43 PM
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#44
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Stalker
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 12,082
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maybe its just me, but i would consider a 5.3l perhaps, with the price of gas, that make make a good advertising angle. plus there are already companies boosting teh 5.3 in the 99-04 trucks with good results. However, if i was going to drop the money for a 5th gen, i would want the highest optioned and biggest motor. lol
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08-07-2006, 02:38 PM
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#45
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13 Second Club / Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Franklin Lakes, NJ
Posts: 8,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokingSS
However, if i was going to drop the money for a 5th gen, i would want the highest optioned and biggest motor. lol
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well put, forget the 5.3
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1ow
Except Jersey mike, great kid, but the way he looks at me makes me feel like im in danger
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08-07-2006, 02:46 PM
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#46
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Hippy Mod, Bergermeister Meisterberger, Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ewing
Posts: 6,216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikz28
no thats garbage nowadays. people go for the better car nowadays. brand loyalty is rare unless you are diehard. many of the guys on LS1tech that are still floating around have gone over to ford. at least three mods have mustangs now
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Brand loyalty is still a huge factor. Look at the 6 cyl Mustangs on the road. I know a couple of people who have gone between GM or Ford but most people stay pretty darn loyal.
__________________
69 Z28 JL8 4 wheel disc brakes - being restored
09 Silverado Z71
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08-07-2006, 03:02 PM
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#47
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 7,856
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you guys got it all wrong.
It doesnt matter about brand loyaltie, trims and motors. GM has to make a good reliable car that can compete against the mustang,350x and other cars. Its not about whos loyal to what, Like justin said we are the minoraty, In order for the camaro to come out and stay out and possibly bring back the trans is going to be.
1.Price
2.Marketing
3. V6
4. Hp/tq
Remember the gto movie that came out when the re introduced the gto? well look at the gto now! Gm has to do more marketing for it to be succsessfull.
Look at all the ricers out their today, their needs to be some racing movies, with the camaro kicking ass. then all teh ricers will be like "ohh snap american muscle"
Like I said before we need the LG4!!
__________________
1984 Firebird
2000 Z28
2023 Tacoma
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08-07-2006, 03:02 PM
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#48
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13 Second Club / Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Franklin Lakes, NJ
Posts: 8,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL8Jeff
Brand loyalty is still a huge factor. Look at the 6 cyl Mustangs on the road. I know a couple of people who have gone between GM or Ford but most people stay pretty darn loyal.
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your definately right jeff, what i really meant to say is that brand loyalty isnt as big of a factor as it was before. most kids these days start out with hondas and toyolas anyway so they arent loyal to anything. im sure some of us GM people feel betrayed as well with some of GMs recent moves. I, for one, will not stand for Ford having a faster pony car then Chevy. thats ridiculous.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1ow
Except Jersey mike, great kid, but the way he looks at me makes me feel like im in danger
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08-07-2006, 03:03 PM
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#49
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,357
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Al, do you ever make a point without typing a friggin thesis paper???
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08-07-2006, 03:09 PM
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#50
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 7,856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikz28
your definately right jeff, what i really meant to say is that brand loyalty isnt as big of a factor as it was before. most kids these days start out with hondas and toyolas anyway so they arent loyal to anything. im sure some of us GM people feel betrayed as well with some of GMs recent moves. I, for one, will not stand for Ford having a faster pony car then Chevy. thats ridiculous.
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Ford was faster in the early 80's to.
__________________
1984 Firebird
2000 Z28
2023 Tacoma
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