GM gets one last low blow at Pontiac

[BigAls87Z28]

Oh I know the temptation. There is always that temptation.
But unlike the banks, there has been tons of goverment regulation already in place, so its not as if the goverment needs to have total oversight and control as in the banks case.
I worry about it too, but I think that its a nessessary evil.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Oh I know the temptation. There is always that temptation.
But unlike the banks, there has been tons of goverment regulation already in place, so its not as if the goverment needs to have total oversight and control as in the banks case.
I worry about it too, but I think that its a nessessary evil.

I agree to a point but the last part...the necessary evil is where we're fundamentally different. I just get really really worried any time government steps into the private sector, especially with some of the TARP games that are being played...call me a tin foil hat wearer but it worries me. The Constitution has been trampled on for the last few years and it's only getting worse.

[NastyEllEssWon]

i personally believe that the govt expects gm to tank. that way they can put a plan into place to offer super low cost BRAND NEW CARS once you scrap your old one....once the govt starts to auction of gm and dismantle it from the inside out.



the failure of gm is inevitable. the govt just wants to profit off it and get old cars off the road at the same time

[LS1Hawk]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

People going in there are not just random goverment officials, but high ranking officials of other companies such as AT&T and Coca Cola.
Its not that bad. President Obama does not want to control the car companies because he doesnt know how to run one.

Neither does Ed Whitacre from AT&T. He publicly stated "I don't know anything about cars."

[BurninrubberGT]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

Neither does Ed Whitacre from AT&T. He publicly stated "I don't know anything about cars."

a gm guy knowing nothing about cars....what else is new?

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

Neither does Ed Whitacre from AT&T. He publicly stated "I don't know anything about cars."

Neither did Allan Mullaly. He came from a company that makes planes. But Mullaly, like Whitacre, comes form a very large company, one that is tops in thier game, and knows how to stay on top.
Fritz Henderson is still the CEO and President.
What Im more interested in, and what the focus will shift to after all this **** is over with, is who will take over for Bob Lutz now that Lutz is on his way out the door?
If GM comes out of this alive, and firing on all 8 cylinders, someone needs to keep carrying that same power and attention for vehicles like Lutz has in just about every company he has been in. Thats what worries me. If Lutz left today, in 3 short years we will have run out of all he had his hands on.
We need another Bob Lutz.

[LTb1ow]

BigAl for CEO?

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Shownomercy

BigAl for CEO?

[LS1Hawk]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Neither did Allan Mullaly. He came from a company that makes planes.

I cannot discredit Mullaly. He has definitely brought Ford a long way. Granted, they still have a long way to go, but they are finally on the right track with the new Fusion and Taurus. But GM has been relying on MBA's with no car knowledge for too long and look where it has gotten them. Case in point:

Lynn Myers was a Pontiac "lifer" who - by never taking a risk - woke up one morning to learn she had been appointed marketing general manager. She continued to miss the evolution of the "computer tuners," who had by now become the next generation of real Pontiac enthusiasts. They had learned how to combine a laptop and a few "bolt-on" parts to really make the [Grand Prix] GTP fly! To this generation - in image- the GTP was indeed the closest thing to come out of Pontiac since the first GTO. And on the subject of the GTO, Myers and her team completely missed the magnificent heritage opportunity. She missed a market full of real Pontiac "lovers" who were pleading for a new rear-drive perfomrance coupe. She had no idea what it meant for a car to be called a "GTO." In fact, she told me once that the new '04 GTO was never meant to be an "M-Car." When I asked, "what is an 'M-Car'?" she replied, "A 'muscle car,' and we are not going to ever drag race it. We're going to use it in sports car road racing." I said "Oh my God" and walked away with my head shaking.

Taken from Jim Wangers op-ed in the current issue of Pontiac Enthusiast. I wish I could post the entire article but there's no electronic version online and it's too long to type out. He goes into a lot of detail about who is really to blame for the failure of Pontiac. And I'm sure a lot of the same can be said for the rest of GM.

[BurninrubberGT]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

I cannot discredit Mullaly. He has definitely brought Ford a long way. Granted, they still have a long way to go, but they are finally on the right track with the new Fusion and Taurus. But GM has been relying on MBA's with no car knowledge for too long and look where it has gotten them. Case in point:

Taken from Jim Wangers op-ed in the current issue of Pontiac Enthusiast. I wish I could post the entire article but there's no electronic version online and it's too long to type out. He goes into a lot of detail about who is really to blame for the failure of Pontiac. And I'm sure a lot of the same can be said for the rest of GM.

i read it in the magazine, it is hands down the best article about pontiac out there

[ib4200]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

I cannot discredit Mullaly. He has definitely brought Ford a long way. Granted, they still have a long way to go, but they are finally on the right track with the new Fusion and Taurus. But GM has been relying on MBA's with no car knowledge for too long and look where it has gotten them. Case in point:

Taken from Jim Wangers op-ed in the current issue of Pontiac Enthusiast. I wish I could post the entire article but there's no electronic version online and it's too long to type out. He goes into a lot of detail about who is really to blame for the failure of Pontiac. And I'm sure a lot of the same can be said for the rest of GM.

c'mon type more

[HeadlessNorseman]

Originally Posted by Jam

How the F^@# is GM going to BUILD EXCITEMENT with a Pontiac Vibe?.....

You used to be able to get those toyota ones with the 180hp 2zz just like the lotus elise. 1.8L toyota vtec lol. Not super fast but a fun car for what it is. Too bad!

[HeadlessNorseman]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I agree to a point but the last part...the necessary evil is where we're fundamentally different. I just get really really worried any time government steps into the private sector, especially with some of the TARP games that are being played...call me a tin foil hat wearer but it worries me. The Constitution has been trampled on for the last few years and it's only getting worse.

I agree with your overall sentiment, esp about the constitution. The government should keep its nose out of everything. Its job is to make laws based on the constitution, enforce them, and maintain the army to defend the country, not to play world police. But yeah aside from that GMs problem is that it rode a wave of cheap gas for too long without looking where to go afterwards. Now the wave is gone. I also feel that the UAW is like 90% of their problem.

[BigAls87Z28]

Everyone rode the cheap gas thing, because people were buying the products.
And it just so happend that these said vehicles are huge profit makers.
Name me ONE company that will abandon a massivly growing market that makes 3-4x the profit of other products you make?

I dont want to hear that "GM doesnt make cars that people want to buy" because for 72 years, no one sold more cars then GM, and GM is still #2!! So thats a lot of cars that people arent buying. And they are still #1 in the US.

There are so many false reasons why GM failed. GM failed because they could not make profit from regular vehicles, were spending money on trying to fix that on top of making thier vehicles better and more desirable, and the economy took a giant dump on itself.

Ford is looking good, but its to me a false perception. They still are losing money hand over fist, and once GM and Chrysler come out of Chap 11, they will have jumped so far ahead of Ford in profitability and debt reduction that Ford will have to find a new way to fix themselves. I will say that in a year or less, Ford will have problems unless the economy turns around or that GM and Chrysler surge and Ford rides the wave.
Ford's products are marginally better, with only one or two stand-out products. Most of thier bread and butter cars are old and tiresome.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I dont want to hear that "GM doesnt make cars that people want to buy"

Yup, that line is complete and utter BS. With that said why should GM move to smaller callers like some experts are saying? Why should GM produce more fuel efficient vehicles if gas prices stay low(well lower than the crisis last year)?

You mark my words Al, aside from the Cobalt replacement you're going to see a newer lineup of small, eco-friendly, uber fuel efficient vehicles(eventually, not right now). Why? Not because the public wants them but once the federal government eventually implements a federal gas tax to keep prices high people are going to HAVE to buy them. Maybe you can add this idea in with the rest of the conspiracy theories going around but I have a sinking feeling a federal gas tax is coming and it's going to force people to buy smaller cars. Hopefully GM sees the writing on the wall in order to survive.