Would you ever fight a ticket just on principle? - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

79CamaroDiva · 03-06-2008, 11:00 PM

What the title says.. would you ever fight a ticket if it would probably cost you more to fight it than it would to just pay it?

I was down at my dad's friends shop in Garfield a few months ago, and his building is right along the side of the road, and the ONLY place to park is off the side of the road in front of the building and wooden guardrail along the side of the building to keep idiots from crashing into the Passaic River. He's friends with the local police, they come in and bs with him all the time. I came out of the shop after I was done painting (i'm airbrushing a bike for him) and as i'm driving away, notice there's a ticket under my wiper. I pulled over, and foudn out it was an improper parking ticket. I told the shop owner, he said its bs, that its private property, and if they wanted to argue regardless, I was parked off the correct side of the road, not blocking any traffic, and there are no signs that say no parking.

So I'm fighting it. I already went to court once, the officer wasn't there, EVEN THOUGH i had to tell them that I would be coming to court AND the ticket number.. they should have had the guy there. Now I have to go back. When I did get up at court, after they said they'd have to have the officer come in, I asked the judge what, exactly, i was ticketed for, and he said that improper parking is either parked on the wrong side of the road (facing wrong direction), or not parking wtihin so many inches of the curb, etc. None of those criteria applied to me, so I have to go back and take pictures of the lot, how I was parked, and bring htem back to court.

In all honesty, its gonna cost me more in gas and work lost to fight this, but to me, its a principle thing. I'm not gonna give the town money for something that I didn't do, because a rookie thought I shouldn't be parked there. (yes, verified as a rookie)

Would you do the same thing or would you just pay it?

SteveR · 03-06-2008, 11:24 PM

Isnt the law that if you plead not guilty ahead of time and the cop doesnt show to court, your case gets dismissed?

deadtrend1 · 03-07-2008, 02:26 AM

I probably would if I had the time and would loose much from work. I give you kudos! lol

Savage_Messiah · 03-07-2008, 04:20 AM

I would as logn as fighting wouldnt cost more than paying. At some point in the future I will change that... but at the current time I'd tae the cheapest route, no matter how much I'd be dying to rip the cop a new ******* for writing me a BS ticket.

DaSkinnyGuy · 03-07-2008, 05:58 AM

Im not sure if a plee brgain is the same thing as fighting it, but I have to plee bargain my ticket so I dont get points.

bubba428 · 03-07-2008, 06:50 AM

fight it, don't get a lawyer, just talk to the cop at the court house

shane27 · 03-07-2008, 07:21 AM

ive fought those kinds of tickets many times

slugger27nj · 03-07-2008, 07:53 AM

I would fight it because the ticket you received is everything to do about fundraising and nothing to do about safety. Too many communities are using their police as a source of fundraising, and it'll just get worse if no one ever fights bogus tickets like this. It really should've been dropped when you were at court and the cop wasn't...they must want your money bad.

Untamed · 03-07-2008, 08:24 AM

I'm like Kasey, whatever the cheapest route is. I don't see you changing the behavior / practice even if you win the case. Pay the fine and move on. It's disguised robbery but that goes with living in New Jersey.

Stroked355Z28 · 03-07-2008, 08:25 AM

It's a tough decision because it is probably better to just pay it and move on; however, on the other hand if you did fight it, you could get it dismissed and if you ever park there again, you won't get a ticket. If you DO fight it, don't get a lawyer, just go there and explain everything. One time my Uncle got a ticket for doing 65 mph in a 50 mph on the highway, but there was NO sign stating the speed limit, so he fought it and went to court because cops used that spot as speed trap when it was really a trick becaue there was no speed limit sign. It was funny, because the judge of his case said that he faced the same problem in that spot, so my Uncle won his case, it got dismissed and the VERY next day, there was a speed limit sign in the location of the highway my uncle was at. So it might actually be worth it to fight it to prevent it from happening again and to teach a rookie a nice lesson early in his career so he is not cocky and knows that HE was wrong. Just my input. Later, Jeff.

DaSkinnyGuy · 03-07-2008, 12:51 PM

Thats why they write these tickets, because they count on those people who say they would just pay it to do just that. then you have a selected few who want to fight their rights, so they dont get ticketed for the wrong thing that they shouldn't be held responible for.

79CamaroDiva · 03-07-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slugger27nj

I would fight it because the ticket you received is everything to do about fundraising and nothing to do about safety. Too many communities are using their police as a source of fundraising, and it'll just get worse if no one ever fights bogus tickets like this. It really should've been dropped when you were at court and the cop wasn't...they must want your money bad.

my whole 40 bucks

.. it really is costing me more in gas to go back and forth and back and forth than to just pay the damn thing, because its in Garfield and I'm about 40 miles away but i'd rather put money in the tank, be able to go over to the shop for lunch after court and hang out than give the municipality the money without a fight.

79CamaroDiva · 03-07-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaSkinnyGuy

Im not sure if a plee brgain is the same thing as fighting it, but I have to plee bargain my ticket so I dont get points.

I don't have to worry about points, its a parking ticket, not a moving violation. A plea bargain you end up paying more in fines, but not getting points. I didn't plea bargain my last speeding ticket becuase my insurance doesn't go up with points, just accidents.

By fighting I mean having it dropped completely.

SteveR · 03-07-2008, 01:29 PM

I'd fight it, even if it costs you more than just paying it off, it lets the cops know that people will fight a ticket given to them there, which is a BS ticket to begin with.

jims69camaro · 03-07-2008, 03:18 PM

it wasn't too long ago that i posted up that a town i had never been in had given me a parking ticket. for me, it was the principle, and even though it cost me $20 in gas (from here to perth amboy (i think)) and hours (literally, three hours since i arrived until i was in front of the judge) of my time, i fought it. sometimes, it's not standing tall, it's just standing up. if you don't protect your rights, who will?

p.s. i think the ticket was $30. i even asked everyone if i should just mail it in or fight it. the majority (as you will see) said to fight it.

jims69camaro · 03-07-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveR

Isnt the law that if you plead not guilty ahead of time and the cop doesnt show to court, your case gets dismissed?

yes.

however, if you don't say anything, they just reschedule the case. funny how that works out, huh? everything is built against you winning. and ignorance is not a defense. if you didn't know, they'll nail you to a wall and take turns pushing broomsticks in your koolie.

79T/A · 03-07-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

I already went to court once, the officer wasn't there, EVEN THOUGH i had to tell them that I would be coming to court AND the ticket number.. they should have had the guy there.

Not quite. Basically, that was your "arraignment," or first appearance. You ever watch "Law and Order?" Right after the arrest, the bad guy is standing in court and pleads, "Not guilty." They, they skip ahead to the trial part. This time is given so that you and/or the officer can subpoena witnesses and gather evidence. The assumption is that you will show up and the prosecutor will offer you a deal or the opportunity to just pay the ticket. If you don't take it, they will schedule it for trial at which time the officer will be there under subpoena.

If it means that much to you, and if you plan on parking there again to do business with the shop, and you're going to fight it, take the time to gather a bunch of evidence. Take a lot of pictures that show there are no signs posted that prohibit parking, that you can safely park a vehicle without it protruding into the street, even subpoena the shop owner to testify that it's his property. I can't guarantee that you'll win, but most of the people I see that come to court that can articulate and bring pictures proving their defense walk out with a dismissal.

Quote:

Im not sure if a plee brgain is the same thing as fighting it, but I have to plee bargain my ticket so I dont get points.

Not quite the same. Basically, the prosecutor offers to downgrade to a lesser offense. The most popular is any type of points ticket being downgraded to "Unsafe operation of a motorvehicle." That equates to careless driving without the points and insurance surcharges. On the downside, it costs just a shade under $500 and you can only plead guilty to this twice in your driving career. Oh, and most courts won't give a payment plan for it; it has to be paid that day. On the upside, it usually saves you about $2500 in insurance surcharges that would stretch over the course of three years. It really comes down to, do you want to spend a big chunk of cash today, or do you want to spend an even bigger chunk over the next few years?

79CamaroDiva, I hope that helps. Good luck!

ryanfx · 03-07-2008, 10:13 PM

I got pulled over once for "not wearing a seatbelt" (which I ALWAYS wear)

I asked the officer why he pulled me over.. and he said because I wasn't wearing it. I dumbfoundedly pointed to my chest, showing him the seatbelt.. that I was wearing.. and he said "I saw you put that on as I pulled you over"

He then argued in court he could clearly see that I wasn't wearing it because both of our windows were down. I asked him to describe the weather, which was at the time, torrential downpour with horrid winds. I thought for sure I was out of the ticket since I now just caught an officer of the law lying in court and I STILL got the damn ticket. It was only a 50 dollar ticket and I took off a whole day of work to fight it.

rightCOASTriot · 03-07-2008, 10:59 PM

yea sometimes its worth fighting...like when i bought my 88 K5 (truck was huggggge) i towed it to in front of my apartment and left it there, it was like 2am and i put the plates on it that was gonna transfer over to it the next day ...and when i woke up ...gone ... mean while i'm like what the hell where is my truck ( it had a 9 inch lift and 36" tires) went to the police station right across the street and they told me they impounded it for uninsured, unregistered and fictitious plates. so i went and transfered everything that day and when i went to court they just dismissed everything but would give me my 136 dollar impound fees back. they also impounded my bronco II once because i parked it outside for longer then 72 hours..some abandoned vehicle charge crap. whuich by the way is a indictable offense! haha but i got that dismissed too DAMN SPRING LAKE PD!!!

1972LT1 · 03-08-2008, 01:26 AM

I would fight it.And I would ask the judge for money for my time off from work to fight this unwarranted ticket.
You could always go to the prosecuter and pig before the trial and show them the evidence. If they don't want to drop the charges tell the pig you'll testify at every trial that he's involved in that he's a liar.

jims69camaro · 03-08-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1972LT1

...go to the prosecuter and pig before the trial and show them the evidence. If they don't want to drop the charges tell the pig you'll testify at every trial that he's involved in that he's a liar.

dude, such hostility... really, it's not warranted. i am sure you've run across one or two that may have caused you a bit of trouble, but A) they're just doing their job and B) they're there to make sure people abide by the law - laws that they have no personal control over, but must enforce as part of their job. maybe your hostility should be pointed toward the lawmakers in our state? most judges i've talked to have nothing good to say about the lawmakers, who sometimes tie the hands of the judges. a perfect scenario is minimum sentencing for certain offenses. another one is the 85% rule. judges cannot skirt either of these things and they are sometimes forced to hand out sentences that they don't agree with. another problem with the law is the lawyers. certain things have been passed to keep lawyers from doing things to get their clients off scot-free when they deservedly need to have a stiffer sentence.

what i am trying to say that although the police are typically the ones in front of you when things aren't going your way, there is so much more involved in the situation than just the ones who are enforcing the law. also, try to keep in mind that they are people, too, who have feelings that can be hurt by misdirected comments.

1_Hot_SOM_WS6 · 03-08-2008, 11:09 AM

If I had the time to do it, I would fight it. Good luck with it!!

jims69camaro · 03-08-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 79T/A

Not quite. Basically, that was your "arraignment," or first appearance. You ever watch "Law and Order?" Right after the arrest, the bad guy is standing in court and pleads, "Not guilty." They, they skip ahead to the trial part. This time is given so that you and/or the officer can subpoena witnesses and gather evidence.

this is only partially true, or maybe true in some areas but not others.

first thing is, the officer has certain days of his schedule that are "court days". these are the days that he writes on tickets, and they are set aside for him to be in court to handle any cases that are contested.

if the ticket says that you must inform them that you plan to plead 'not guilty' to the offense, that is their second warning that the officer must be in court to be available to be called by you and/or the prosecutor as a witness. if this is the case, and the officer does not avail himself to the court, then you can ask that the charge be dismissed for lack of evidence, due to the officer not being available for your (assumed) cross-examination. in this state and all others of the United States, you have the right to face your accuser(s). since the officer is the accuser in this instance, you are not given the opportunity to face him if he is not in court.

i was given a citation for resisting arrest, which is an indictable offense in ocean county. i was not indicted. the case went to municipal court and i took a lawyer with me on my court date. he spoke with the prosecutor, who called out to see if anyone was there representing the ocean county sheriff's office, who wrote the citation. he called out three times, then spoke with my lawyer again and my lawyer returned to me saying that the charge was dismissed. i can only rely on what i saw and heard, which was that my accuser wasn't available. since no one was there from the sheriff's office, the charge was dismissed. i have to think that the sheriff's officers are given "court days" as well, and cannot understand why they didn't show up. i called the court, myself, about 5 weeks out from the court date, to let them know that i was contesting the charge and who my lawyer was going to be. they had fair warning to make the officer(s) available, and since there was no one there, i walked away from it, only having to pay my lawyer $400 for a court appearance.

i am not a lawyer. the preceeding statements made by me should not be used as a sole resource for knowing what you need to do to prepare to face a ticket in municipal court. if you have questions about what i have said, please talk with a lawyer. my statements are a culmination of what i have learned in the years of experience i have had personally in municipal courts, but they should not be relied upon or used as evidence in court. if you need legal advice, seek an attorney.

foff667 · 03-08-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaSkinnyGuy

Im not sure if a plee brgain is the same thing as fighting it, but I have to plee bargain my ticket so I dont get points.

you don't get points on your license for a parking ticket AFAIK

79T/A · 03-08-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

first thing is, the officer has certain days of his schedule that are "court days". these are the days that he writes on tickets, and they are set aside for him to be in court to handle any cases that are contested.

Yeah, clearly, things vary from agency to agency and county to county. I've never heard of such a thing, and that's not how it works where I come from but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen in other places.

Jim, I can't imagine a guy as articulate as you being arrested PERIOD, let alone for resisting arrest.

To echo what Jim said: For true LEGAL advice, talk to a lawyer. My suggestions were for you to take into consideration in the event that you decided to fight the summons. I just LOVE all these legal discussions that we can have on here without a bunch of hostility. Well, mostly, anyway.