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Old 07-29-2008, 07:32 PM   #1
12secondv6
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Progressive uses black box to reward or penalize drivers

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/07/29/d....ap/index.html

TRENTON, New Jersey (AP) -- A high-tech monitoring device makes it possible to reduce insurance premiums for drivers who avoid jackrabbit starts and slam-on-the-brakes stops, an insurance company says.

One insurance company is installing high-tech monitoring devices in cars to help gentle drivers cut premiums.

The catch? Bad drivers who take a chance on the program may wind up paying a surcharge instead.

Auto insurer Progressive Corp. has begun offering its drivers the chance to cut their costs based on how they actually drive, not only on their age, credit score and number of tickets or accidents on their record.

The monitoring device -- sort of like a black box for cars -- tells Progressive what time people drive, how many miles they've driven, how fast they accelerate and how often they hit the brakes. It does not track where people go.

Under Progressive's program, customers can earn a first-term discount of up to 10 percent just for signing up. When they renew their policy, their rate could decrease by up to 60 percent based on their driving habits. But it could also increase by up to 9 percent.

Richard Hutchinson, a Progressive general manager, said the program is designed for drivers who are consistent and safe.

"We want people to know that the program is not right for everyone," Hutchinson said.

"It's for people who drive at low-risk times of day and who keep alert for others on the road," he said. "They don't make fast lane changes or follow too closely behind other drivers so they don't have to overreact or slam on the brakes."

Progressive began the program in Alabama in late June. It's also been made available in Minnesota, Oregon and Michigan. A national rollout of the program will continue through 2009.

It starts in New Jersey on Aug. 8. The company will be the first to offer such a program in the Garden State, whose motorists have the highest auto insurance rates in the nation at an average of $1,184 per vehicle.

Other companies also recently began offering similar options.

GMAC Insurance and OnStar vehicle services last year started a new program that allows motorists to earn an extra discount based on the miles they drive.

"The consumer is really being given an opportunity to potentially reduce their auto insurance premium in exchange for giving their auto insurer access to information that currently isn't available to them," said Michael Barry, a vice president at the Insurance Information Institute.

The concept has been utilized elsewhere, too. After conducting a pilot scheme beginning in 2004, Norwich Union launched a pay-as-you-drive insurance program in 2006 in Great Britain.

Several insurers in recent years have offered monitoring of a particularly vulnerable population of drivers -- teenagers. Under American Family Insurance Co.'s program, for example, a camera records audio and video images of the road and the teen driver when motion sensors detect swerving, hard braking, sudden acceleration or a collision.

There's an extra benefit to monitored driving programs -- they help cut traffic congestion and pollution, according to the Environmental Defense Fund.

But Charles Samuelson, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Minnesota, told The Star Ledger of Newark for Monday's editions that the group has worries about privacy.

"We see this as kind of a creeping abduction of people's data," he said. "Basically, once they collect that data, it belongs to the insurance company. That's a big problem."

Progressive spokeswoman Tara Chiarell disagreed, saying the customer owns the data and Progressive doesn't sell it or share it. The company uses it only for claims purposes. She also said Progressive has never been subpoenaed by a court to submit pay-as-you-drive claims data.

Customers can access their data on a secure, password-protected Web site, which allows them to get an up-to-date view of their driving habits and how those habits are affecting their rate, she said.

AAA Mid-Atlantic spokesman David Weinstein said if a link between electronic monitoring and accident probability becomes clear, they would like to see all drivers' insurance premiums based on that information, "not just select drivers who grant their permission."



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Old 07-29-2008, 07:38 PM   #2
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ehhhh......not for me. k thanks
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:43 PM   #3
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I read this in the paper earlier....sounds like a good idea to me.

I wonder what sort of setup it will be though? Connected to an OBDII port? Just a random box mounted in your car with accelerometers in it?

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Old 07-29-2008, 07:44 PM   #4
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I read this in the paper earlier....sounds like a good idea to me.

I wonder what sort of setup it will be though? Connected to an OBDII port? Just a random box mounted in your car with accelerometers in it?

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I want to know how it can calculate your following distance
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:46 PM   #5
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they make data trackers that plug into obdII ports, but i am sure this is going to be more sophisticated
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:49 PM   #6
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cars with onstar do something similar already, whether you agree to it or not. that was one of the biggest sways in me buying an 06HHR instead of a new one with onstar

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The majority of OnStar users are happy with the service, and the many real-life customer stories on OnStar's Web site seem to confirm this. But not all reviews of OnStar are positive. Some users call the service "Big Brother" and say that the service can lead to an invasion of privacy.

In addition to airbag deployment and impact severity, the Vehicle Comm and Interface Module can also record whether you're wearing your seatbelt or how fast you're driving. It keeps data related to events immediately before, during and after a crash for about 45 days. The Call Center retains received information for over a year so that it can maintain quality and follow-up on customer complaints.

OnStar says that it passes this information on to auto manufacturers to improve vehicle safety. However, critics speculate that it could also be used to:

* clear auto manufacturers of wrongdoing
* deny warranty repairs
* find you at fault in an accident
* increase your car insurance premiums or change your coverage

According to OnStar's Privacy Policy, it will share personal information to "comply with legal requirements, valid court orders and exigent circumstances" [ref]. It also shares information with subsidiaries, including GMAC, which provides vehicle insurance. Although it did not mention OnStar by name, a United States Appeals Court ruled in 2003 that the government may be able to use the on-board cell phone to eavesdrop on drivers.
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:49 PM   #7
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So how long until people figure out how to "edit" these boxes?
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:05 PM   #8
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So how long until people figure out how to "edit" these boxes?
there'll be a lot more interested in modifying them once the new camaro comes out
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:05 PM   #9
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ef that crap
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:16 PM   #10
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so even if you drive like an a55hole or aggressive and never get into accidents your rates would go up....it is the ghey!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:32 PM   #11
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Onstar COULD, but does not act as a tattle tale to anyone but GM.
GM does not have any legal right to ticket you nor have the right to do anything else.
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:13 PM   #12
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ef that crap
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:22 PM   #13
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Although it did not mention OnStar by name, a United States Appeals Court ruled in 2003 that the government may be able to use the on-board cell phone to eavesdrop on drivers
it sounds like they could drop in on you any time they want. would be kind of embarrassing if you decided to pull over at a rest stop with your SO and bang a gong...

but it's like any other technology. in the right hands, used for valid purposes, i don't find anything wrong with it. now, if it recorded an accident and you are trapped in the vehicle and they decided to eavesdrop to see if you were ok, then that is one thing. used for other, ulterior motives, smacks of big brother.
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:21 AM   #14
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So how long until people figure out how to "edit" these boxes?
Bill ( foff) probably already has it figured out
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:42 AM   #15
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As long as it remains optional. Who cares? But how long till its in every car?
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:45 AM   #16
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As long as it remains optional. Who cares? But how long till its in every car?
That was my point with OnStar, that's not optional in new chevy cars, it comes standard. Al says they use it only to report to GM, but they stated that they WILL use the data if subpoenaed by the court.
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:04 PM   #17
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yet another reason to keep the 1995 Camaro...
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:28 PM   #18
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That was my point with OnStar, that's not optional in new chevy cars, it comes standard. Al says they use it only to report to GM, but they stated that they WILL use the data if subpoenaed by the court.
Cant you just cut some wires and what not so the onstar doesnt work? Yes that isnt the best fix but if you really dont want it and want a new chevy... haha
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:36 PM   #19
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That was my point with OnStar, that's not optional in new chevy cars, it comes standard.
Are you sure about this? does that apply only to Chevy, or all GM? At least on Pontiacs web site you can "build" a car without the OnStar
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:45 PM   #20
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the onstar mic is in my a pillar, i could just cut it out... plus once i do my stereo in a year or so all my onstar will be yanked.
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:51 PM   #21
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For me it isnt even a question of the equipment in the car, I dont want that stupid little antenna on the back of my car.
I went to pontiac.com and the website has been changed, again, and there is no option of OnStar or not now. Ill have to see when I order my '09 Solstice hardtop....
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:01 PM   #22
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What if you install this, then take the car to the track...

whoops.
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