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04-06-2010, 02:06 PM
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#51
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Hippy Mod, Bergermeister Meisterberger, Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ewing
Posts: 6,216
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Let's just say that college doesn't provide you with the skills you need like actual hands on experience will. But, it's tough to get in the door for the interview without some sort of degree. It shouldn't be like that, but it is. Then add the cost of college and the payback time if you do find a job eventually, and it becomes a bigger waste. I had 1 meaningful class in college and it wasn't even tought by a professor, it was a hands on real life situation doing computer programming. And that was a 10 week semester!
__________________
69 Z28 JL8 4 wheel disc brakes - being restored
09 Silverado Z71
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04-06-2010, 02:42 PM
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#52
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT
I used to be under the impression that when you graduate college you should have a good understanding of your particular topic of study.
Now that I interview and hire people, I have noticed that the degree means you can apply yourself to learn something- it means very little (in most cases) as far as depth of knowledge and skill. We have to re-train everybody new who comes in to our company, even if they have a degree in the segment they are hired for.
That is your "Epic Fail".
Do you need it to get in the door of a lot of places? Yeah! Do you need it to land the job? Sure. Is it more than an admission ticket in a lot of cases? Nope.
Do you need it to earn a good living? Also no. Does it help? Yeah. But not as much as your Bursar's office would lead you to believe.
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I have a pretty good understanding of what I studied, but I suspect that you were talking about GP, not me. As I already pointed out, one does not need a degree to be successful; I'm sure some idiot will bring up Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Mike Dell, Steve Jobs, and bunch more. However, the reality (statistics) for most people without a degree is not that, it's a "9-5" making ~60ish k a year, if that. To some it's great, to some it's not.
As far as "re-training" goes, I find that point worthless. When I get a job I want, I will be send into an academy where I will be taught how to engage multiple targets at the same time, high speed evasion and all that stuff one can NOT learn in too many places. Do you suggest that we just throw new hires under fire and see what happens? That's idiotic, training is a necessity no matter who you hire. In fact if I get hired and a special forces guys from the army gets hired we will undergo the same training... No exceptions. I'm not exactly sure what you do, but I hope you weren't applying your point to everybody.
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04-06-2010, 02:56 PM
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#53
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
I have a pretty good understanding of what I studied, but I suspect that you were talking about GP, not me. As I already pointed out, one does not need a degree to be successful; I'm sure some idiot will bring up Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Mike Dell, Steve Jobs, and bunch more. However, the reality (statistics) for most people without a degree is not that, it's a "9-5" making ~60ish k a year, if that. To some it's great, to some it's not.
As far as "re-training" goes, I find that point worthless. When I get a job I want, I will be send into an academy where I will be taught how to engage multiple targets at the same time, high speed evasion and all that stuff one can NOT learn in too many places. Do you suggest that we just throw new hires under fire and see what happens? That's idiotic, training is a necessity no matter who you hire. In fact if I get hired and a special forces guys from the army gets hired we will undergo the same training... No exceptions. I'm not exactly sure what you do, but I hope you weren't applying your point to everybody.
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Perhaps I was unclear. In certain jobs you cannot learn the skills you need elsewhere. I think it's foolish and illogical to think that you are supposed to know EVERYTHING when you graduate college regardless of degree.
But in many (engineering, computer programming, and probably a bunch more) the new hire has to re-learn the basics of what they are supposed to know. Example: I have had Computer Science graduates fail the "entrance test" I decided to implement because they cannot execute a simple JOIN statement in SQL. A few of them had 3.25+ GPAs in their major. I've also had guys that don't know what recursion is. That to me is really really bad. And I'm not alone. I talk to guys I know in many other fields who feel the same way.
It's one thing if you don't know intermediate or advanced topics. Or they can't/don't teach you what you need to know (I guess that's your case?). It is something completely different when people are given a degree and a nice GPA without an understanding of some of the fundamental topics of their field of study. That pisses me off. Especially when hiring somebody is a gamble, and their college performance may be your only clue.
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04-06-2010, 04:34 PM
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#54
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King of Free
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT
Perhaps I was unclear. In certain jobs you cannot learn the skills you need elsewhere. I think it's foolish and illogical to think that you are supposed to know EVERYTHING when you graduate college regardless of degree.
But in many (engineering, computer programming, and probably a bunch more) the new hire has to re-learn the basics of what they are supposed to know. Example: I have had Computer Science graduates fail the "entrance test" I decided to implement because they cannot execute a simple JOIN statement in SQL. A few of them had 3.25+ GPAs in their major. I've also had guys that don't know what recursion is. That to me is really really bad. And I'm not alone. I talk to guys I know in many other fields who feel the same way.
It's one thing if you don't know intermediate or advanced topics. Or they can't/don't teach you what you need to know (I guess that's your case?). It is something completely different when people are given a degree and a nice GPA without an understanding of some of the fundamental topics of their field of study. That pisses me off. Especially when hiring somebody is a gamble, and their college performance may be your only clue.
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Not knowing SQL statements is one thing... computer science is more about logic and application than it is specifics like web design and database access. Recursion on the other hand.. there should be no excuse for not knowing it.
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2001 Trans Am M6 WS6 Black on Black...on Black
PaceSetter LT's, TSP catted Y,Borla catback, SLP lid
!CAGS, Eibach pro-kit, Bilstein shocks, 5% tint all around
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04-06-2010, 04:37 PM
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#55
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Lifetime Power Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 862
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Sorry, Eric, for opening up this can of worms. I'll just finish it off by saying I do not discourage going to college, I just think it's overrated. I can say that I got to where I am by a lot of hard work but I probably would have gotten there sooner had I finished school. But it just begs the question, how hard of a worker would I be today had I not the need to work as hard to get to where I am now.
Anyway, let's get back on topic here. Have you tried temp agencies yet? I had plenty of luck with Today's Staffing - I worked really well with them and they gave me a few choices. Lucky I picked the right one  .
Any other suggestions?
g
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2002 Pewter V6 Camaro M5 ~ SOLD 
mods: Gear, weight reduction, tuning
Fear the Gear. 13.585 @ 100.05 1.827
Beater: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee
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04-06-2010, 05:02 PM
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#56
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT
But in many (engineering, computer programming, and probably a bunch more) the new hire has to re-learn the basics of what they are supposed to know. Example: I have had Computer Science graduates fail the "entrance test" I decided to implement because they cannot execute a simple JOIN statement in SQL. A few of them had 3.25+ GPAs in their major. I've also had guys that don't know what recursion is. That to me is really really bad. And I'm not alone. I talk to guys I know in many other fields who feel the same way.
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 WOOOSH
Quote:
It's one thing if you don't know intermediate or advanced topics. Or they can't/don't teach you what you need to know (I guess that's your case?).
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My problem, more or less, is government inefficiency and my "Russian-ness". Ex: I applied somewhere in October of 2009, I heard back from them in March of 2010, I will have an "assessment" at the end of April. Everything is too slow, but the job is sweet, so I have to jump through the hoops. Just because I'll waste, possibly, two years on this does not mean that I will get the job, as it was already proven to me. I'm sure if I grew up in NJ behind a white picket fence, I would already have what I originally wanted. But I have lived in 5 different countries, and 25+ different place, I'm also a dual citizen - all of those are not "cool" when it comes to handing out TS clearances.
On the other hand there's the private sector, which I really have no interest in, but they are efficient. I applied for a job today (10am), they got back to me today (3pm).... I will have an interview by the end of this week. But do I want the job? No.
Last edited by Tsar; 04-06-2010 at 05:03 PM.
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04-06-2010, 09:31 PM
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#57
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13 Second Club
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ewing/Galloway, NJ
Posts: 3,904
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well i have a final interview tomorrow for one company and am waiting till monday to see if i get an offer from another
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EB
99 Riviera, Bone stock, 14.34 @ 96 "Walking 5.0's in luxury" RIP
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R.I.P. Tia
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04-06-2010, 09:42 PM
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#58
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel
well i have a final interview tomorrow for one company and am waiting till monday to see if i get an offer from another
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Good luck, man. Sorry for the hijack.
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04-06-2010, 09:50 PM
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#59
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Co-Founder / Site Admin
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ewing, NJ
Posts: 22,476
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Good luck Eric, let us know how you do.
- Justin
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1999 Camry - Beigemobile DD
2002 Suburban - Wife's DD
2004 Grand Cherokee - Not running / Project / Selling?
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04-07-2010, 10:20 AM
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#60
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,308
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Good luck, man. Let us know how it went.
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John
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04-07-2010, 09:47 PM
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#61
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: clarksburg
Posts: 151
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join the coast guard
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04-07-2010, 11:04 PM
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#62
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?
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04-07-2010, 11:06 PM
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#63
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The Mayor / 2009 Member of the Year / Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northwest
Posts: 8,869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?
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He heard about your wit
__________________
1995 Z28 Convertible A4 13.78 @ 100 (CAI, high flow cat, catback, 160 thermo, hypertech, Strano springs, Koni yellows, sway bars, 3 pt. UMI SFC)
2018 Sea Doo GTX - 3 cylinders and das boooooost
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonzoHansen
Is English your 2nd language? Did you graduate high school? Your posts make my head hurt.
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Team FARM
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04-08-2010, 02:18 PM
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#64
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Shreveport Louisianna Barksdale AFB
Posts: 1,415
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he was from south jersey
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USAF Jet Propulsion Specialist
 1985 383 Camaro-nothing special I promise 
2000 NBM z28-also nothing special
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04-08-2010, 04:28 PM
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#65
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Admin.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?
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lol. sounds more like lack of prep.
On the bright side they say the best interviews are the ones where you keep the interviewer talk as much or more than you do!
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Vent Windows Forever!
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.
Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.
Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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04-08-2010, 04:41 PM
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#66
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13 Second Club
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Netcong, NJ
Posts: 5,799
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Alot of friends of mine are jobless, and looking for jobs out of college. So it always boggled me, if I lucked out by getting a steady "neck-down" job right out of high school or not, because I'm sure if I spent alot of money to get me through college and come out jobless for a long time, I'd be very frustrated. Hope the interview went well.
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2019 Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro ... M6, Voodoo Blue Fun Machine
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04-08-2010, 07:05 PM
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#67
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Admin.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,165
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Yes, it is very tough right now. Worst market maybe ever for college grads. I feel bad for you guys.
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.
Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.
Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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04-08-2010, 08:35 PM
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#68
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,308
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I can tell you I have been with my company now for a year and 1 month since I was laid off from my last job in Feb '09. In the time I have been with my current employer there have been 2 big layoffs and a 3rd impending one as there's a big organizational change going on now. It's bad for everyone, recent college grad or experienced professional.
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John
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04-08-2010, 08:47 PM
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#69
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Admin.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1Hawk
I can tell you I have been with my company now for a year and 1 month since I was laid off from my last job in Feb '09. In the time I have been with my current employer there have been 2 big layoffs and a 3rd impending one as there's a big organizational change going on now. It's bad for everyone, recent college grad or experienced professional.
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+1 on that. Been there, sweated it out with the other 'survivors'. Watched benefits get cut and become more expensive, no raises for 2 years, all that. Hard to listen to some of the folks in the news who have no idea what the rest of the world faces. (there, that was the best non-political, non-fingerpointing I can muster)
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.
Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.
Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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04-08-2010, 08:51 PM
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#70
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonzoHansen
+1 on that. Been there, sweated it out with the other 'survivors'. Watched benefits get cut and become more expensive, no raises for 2 years, all that. Hard to listen to some of the folks in the news who have no idea what the rest of the world faces. (there, that was the best non-political, non-fingerpointing I can muster)
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Yup. Add in "having to fire some close friends" and I agree 100%.
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04-08-2010, 09:20 PM
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#71
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Hippy Mod, Bergermeister Meisterberger, Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ewing
Posts: 6,216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?
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I've been on those interviews and it made me think "why would I want to work for you?" and I lost interest in the job and company. But that was a long time ago, not in today's market. I keep trying to get my company to hire some fresh out of school programmers because we are so swamped with work it will take us 5 years to catch up. Nope, they don't think they can afford it!  It makes no sense at all and it's running all of us into the ground to the point we are making mistakes now. I guess if somebody makes a $40K mistake each year then maybe it can be justified.
__________________
69 Z28 JL8 4 wheel disc brakes - being restored
09 Silverado Z71
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04-09-2010, 05:44 AM
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#72
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonzoHansen
+1 on that. Been there, sweated it out with the other 'survivors'. Watched benefits get cut and become more expensive, no raises for 2 years, all that. Hard to listen to some of the folks in the news who have no idea what the rest of the world faces. (there, that was the best non-political, non-fingerpointing I can muster)
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Are you sure we don't work at the same place?
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John
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04-09-2010, 06:58 AM
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#73
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Admin.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1Hawk
Are you sure we don't work at the same place? 
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same place, just a different name on the sign
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.
Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.
Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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04-09-2010, 07:22 AM
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#74
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Blackwood/Laurel Springs
Posts: 518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?
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__________________
2001 Trans Am WS6 6 speed - forged 6.0 with a stock cam and a rough idle
1994 Trans Am GT 6 speed - (sold)
1987 Camaro Iroc-Z - flintstone car(sold)
1992 Camaro RS - slow 305 6 speed (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro2you
What is a opti?
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04-09-2010, 09:46 AM
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#75
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: West Long Branch
Posts: 13,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?
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Probably has a college degree...what a dumbass.
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2/20/2013: They Day the ****s Stopped
Last edited by BigAls87Z28; 04-09-2010 at 09:46 AM.
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