I don't know these days

[JL8Jeff]

Let's just say that college doesn't provide you with the skills you need like actual hands on experience will. But, it's tough to get in the door for the interview without some sort of degree. It shouldn't be like that, but it is. Then add the cost of college and the payback time if you do find a job eventually, and it becomes a bigger waste. I had 1 meaningful class in college and it wasn't even tought by a professor, it was a hands on real life situation doing computer programming. And that was a 10 week semester!

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

I used to be under the impression that when you graduate college you should have a good understanding of your particular topic of study.

Now that I interview and hire people, I have noticed that the degree means you can apply yourself to learn something- it means very little (in most cases) as far as depth of knowledge and skill. We have to re-train everybody new who comes in to our company, even if they have a degree in the segment they are hired for.

That is your "Epic Fail".

Do you need it to get in the door of a lot of places? Yeah! Do you need it to land the job? Sure. Is it more than an admission ticket in a lot of cases? Nope.
Do you need it to earn a good living? Also no. Does it help? Yeah. But not as much as your Bursar's office would lead you to believe.

I have a pretty good understanding of what I studied, but I suspect that you were talking about GP, not me. As I already pointed out, one does not need a degree to be successful; I'm sure some idiot will bring up Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Mike Dell, Steve Jobs, and bunch more. However, the reality (statistics) for most people without a degree is not that, it's a "9-5" making ~60ish k a year, if that. To some it's great, to some it's not.

As far as "re-training" goes, I find that point worthless. When I get a job I want, I will be send into an academy where I will be taught how to engage multiple targets at the same time, high speed evasion and all that stuff one can NOT learn in too many places. Do you suggest that we just throw new hires under fire and see what happens? That's idiotic, training is a necessity no matter who you hire. In fact if I get hired and a special forces guys from the army gets hired we will undergo the same training... No exceptions. I'm not exactly sure what you do, but I hope you weren't applying your point to everybody.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Tsar

I have a pretty good understanding of what I studied, but I suspect that you were talking about GP, not me. As I already pointed out, one does not need a degree to be successful; I'm sure some idiot will bring up Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Mike Dell, Steve Jobs, and bunch more. However, the reality (statistics) for most people without a degree is not that, it's a "9-5" making ~60ish k a year, if that. To some it's great, to some it's not.

As far as "re-training" goes, I find that point worthless. When I get a job I want, I will be send into an academy where I will be taught how to engage multiple targets at the same time, high speed evasion and all that stuff one can NOT learn in too many places. Do you suggest that we just throw new hires under fire and see what happens? That's idiotic, training is a necessity no matter who you hire. In fact if I get hired and a special forces guys from the army gets hired we will undergo the same training... No exceptions. I'm not exactly sure what you do, but I hope you weren't applying your point to everybody.

Perhaps I was unclear. In certain jobs you cannot learn the skills you need elsewhere. I think it's foolish and illogical to think that you are supposed to know EVERYTHING when you graduate college regardless of degree.

But in many (engineering, computer programming, and probably a bunch more) the new hire has to re-learn the basics of what they are supposed to know. Example: I have had Computer Science graduates fail the "entrance test" I decided to implement because they cannot execute a simple JOIN statement in SQL. A few of them had 3.25+ GPAs in their major. I've also had guys that don't know what recursion is. That to me is really really bad. And I'm not alone. I talk to guys I know in many other fields who feel the same way.

It's one thing if you don't know intermediate or advanced topics. Or they can't/don't teach you what you need to know (I guess that's your case?). It is something completely different when people are given a degree and a nice GPA without an understanding of some of the fundamental topics of their field of study. That pisses me off. Especially when hiring somebody is a gamble, and their college performance may be your only clue.

[ryanfx]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Perhaps I was unclear. In certain jobs you cannot learn the skills you need elsewhere. I think it's foolish and illogical to think that you are supposed to know EVERYTHING when you graduate college regardless of degree.

But in many (engineering, computer programming, and probably a bunch more) the new hire has to re-learn the basics of what they are supposed to know. Example: I have had Computer Science graduates fail the "entrance test" I decided to implement because they cannot execute a simple JOIN statement in SQL. A few of them had 3.25+ GPAs in their major. I've also had guys that don't know what recursion is. That to me is really really bad. And I'm not alone. I talk to guys I know in many other fields who feel the same way.

It's one thing if you don't know intermediate or advanced topics. Or they can't/don't teach you what you need to know (I guess that's your case?). It is something completely different when people are given a degree and a nice GPA without an understanding of some of the fundamental topics of their field of study. That pisses me off. Especially when hiring somebody is a gamble, and their college performance may be your only clue.

Not knowing SQL statements is one thing... computer science is more about logic and application than it is specifics like web design and database access. Recursion on the other hand.. there should be no excuse for not knowing it.

[Little G]

Sorry, Eric, for opening up this can of worms. I'll just finish it off by saying I do not discourage going to college, I just think it's overrated. I can say that I got to where I am by a lot of hard work but I probably would have gotten there sooner had I finished school. But it just begs the question, how hard of a worker would I be today had I not the need to work as hard to get to where I am now.

Anyway, let's get back on topic here. Have you tried temp agencies yet? I had plenty of luck with Today's Staffing - I worked really well with them and they gave me a few choices. Lucky I picked the right one .

Any other suggestions?

g

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

But in many (engineering, computer programming, and probably a bunch more) the new hire has to re-learn the basics of what they are supposed to know. Example: I have had Computer Science graduates fail the "entrance test" I decided to implement because they cannot execute a simple JOIN statement in SQL. A few of them had 3.25+ GPAs in their major. I've also had guys that don't know what recursion is. That to me is really really bad. And I'm not alone. I talk to guys I know in many other fields who feel the same way.

WOOOSH

It's one thing if you don't know intermediate or advanced topics. Or they can't/don't teach you what you need to know (I guess that's your case?).

My problem, more or less, is government inefficiency and my "Russian-ness". Ex: I applied somewhere in October of 2009, I heard back from them in March of 2010, I will have an "assessment" at the end of April. Everything is too slow, but the job is sweet, so I have to jump through the hoops. Just because I'll waste, possibly, two years on this does not mean that I will get the job, as it was already proven to me. I'm sure if I grew up in NJ behind a white picket fence, I would already have what I originally wanted. But I have lived in 5 different countries, and 25+ different place, I'm also a dual citizen - all of those are not "cool" when it comes to handing out TS clearances.

On the other hand there's the private sector, which I really have no interest in, but they are efficient. I applied for a job today (10am), they got back to me today (3pm).... I will have an interview by the end of this week. But do I want the job? No.

[Squirrel]

well i have a final interview tomorrow for one company and am waiting till monday to see if i get an offer from another

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Squirrel

well i have a final interview tomorrow for one company and am waiting till monday to see if i get an offer from another

Good luck, man. Sorry for the hijack.

[Tru2Chevy]

Good luck Eric, let us know how you do.

- Justin

[LS1Hawk]

Good luck, man. Let us know how it went.

[Firebird]

join the coast guard

[Tsar]

Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?

He heard about your wit

[Jersyboyy]

he was from south jersey

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?

lol. sounds more like lack of prep.

On the bright side they say the best interviews are the ones where you keep the interviewer talk as much or more than you do!

[enRo]

Alot of friends of mine are jobless, and looking for jobs out of college. So it always boggled me, if I lucked out by getting a steady "neck-down" job right out of high school or not, because I'm sure if I spent alot of money to get me through college and come out jobless for a long time, I'd be very frustrated. Hope the interview went well.

[BonzoHansen]

Yes, it is very tough right now. Worst market maybe ever for college grads. I feel bad for you guys.

[LS1Hawk]

I can tell you I have been with my company now for a year and 1 month since I was laid off from my last job in Feb '09. In the time I have been with my current employer there have been 2 big layoffs and a 3rd impending one as there's a big organizational change going on now. It's bad for everyone, recent college grad or experienced professional.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

I can tell you I have been with my company now for a year and 1 month since I was laid off from my last job in Feb '09. In the time I have been with my current employer there have been 2 big layoffs and a 3rd impending one as there's a big organizational change going on now. It's bad for everyone, recent college grad or experienced professional.

+1 on that. Been there, sweated it out with the other 'survivors'. Watched benefits get cut and become more expensive, no raises for 2 years, all that. Hard to listen to some of the folks in the news who have no idea what the rest of the world faces. (there, that was the best non-political, non-fingerpointing I can muster)

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

+1 on that. Been there, sweated it out with the other 'survivors'. Watched benefits get cut and become more expensive, no raises for 2 years, all that. Hard to listen to some of the folks in the news who have no idea what the rest of the world faces. (there, that was the best non-political, non-fingerpointing I can muster)

Yup. Add in "having to fire some close friends" and I agree 100%.

[JL8Jeff]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?

I've been on those interviews and it made me think "why would I want to work for you?" and I lost interest in the job and company. But that was a long time ago, not in today's market. I keep trying to get my company to hire some fresh out of school programmers because we are so swamped with work it will take us 5 years to catch up. Nope, they don't think they can afford it! It makes no sense at all and it's running all of us into the ground to the point we are making mistakes now. I guess if somebody makes a $40K mistake each year then maybe it can be justified.

[LS1Hawk]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

+1 on that. Been there, sweated it out with the other 'survivors'. Watched benefits get cut and become more expensive, no raises for 2 years, all that. Hard to listen to some of the folks in the news who have no idea what the rest of the world faces. (there, that was the best non-political, non-fingerpointing I can muster)

Are you sure we don't work at the same place?

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by LS1Hawk

Are you sure we don't work at the same place?

same place, just a different name on the sign

[spina74]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Had an interview today, never heard a person using so many "umms", "ooh", "aaa", mainly "umms" though. I kinda felt like I was interviewing him, and it was his first time.. What's with people who can't speak?

Probably has a college degree...what a dumbass.